Your Digital Marketing Coach with Neal Schaffer

A Fresh New Perspective on Instagram Marketing: How to Blog on Instagram [Terri Nakamura Interview]

April 04, 2022 Neal Schaffer Episode 259
Your Digital Marketing Coach with Neal Schaffer
A Fresh New Perspective on Instagram Marketing: How to Blog on Instagram [Terri Nakamura Interview]
Show Notes Transcript

Are you looking for creative angles to your Instagram marketing?

Today's guest, Author of Blogging on Instagram, Terri Nakamura, will introduce you to a refreshingly unique way of looking at the platform that will spark some new creative ideas for your own Instagram marketing.

You don't have to start a blog to be successful on Instagram, but following Terri's advice will undoubtedly help improve your Twitter marketing game!

Key Highlights

[02:44] Introduction of Podcast Guest, Terri Nakamura

[06:36] Who is Terri?

[11:21] Why and How Terri Started Blogging on Instagram

[12:17] Courses Terri Took in Digital Marketing

[14:48] Why Terri Wrote a Book

[17:57] How Terri Found Her Publisher

[25:04] The Value of Publisher

[27:07] The Route Terri Took

[33:06] Evolving Blogging for Instagram to Book

[36:52] Terri's Advice to Those Who Take Advantage of Instagram as a Blogging Platform

[39:17] "Make EveryEmail a Love Letter"

[40:16] Impact of Instagram on Developing Relationships

[42:27] How to get the most of Instagram

[44:11] Connect with Terri

Notable Quotes

  • I think some people just feel like social media is there to be an advertising platform and they don't deliver any value.
  • Understanding the value in education and the other things that you deliver to your audience are the things that draw them to you.
  • I think blogging [on Instagram] is a really great place to experiment for people who want to write and have and engage with the audience.
  • You don't make money off the book, you make money off people who read the book, who reach out and want to hire you.
  •  If you have a visual way of representing what you do, or you have a visual product or service, it's even better for that platform. You can't be everywhere. You don't need to be everywhere. 
  • You have to prioritize and know where your time is going to be the most valuable.
    You can collect other kinds of data that will indicate whether or not you're on the right track and what kinds of things resonate, and how many times you get on to the Explore page and stuff like that. 
  • And it's really important to build an audience and awareness, so you get other benefits.
  • So you can imagine that if you treat social media and Instagram in that way, and you are putting your attention creating a blog post and every post you publish there, it can be really impactful because it really is a personal platform. And you can personally connect with people and engage with people in that way.

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Neal Schaffer:

Are you looking for a unique way to leverage Instagram and cut through the noise there? Well, I have something very special and something very unique that we're going to talk about today all on Instagram marketing, but looking at it in a way that I guarantee you've never looked at it before. On this next episode of The your digital marketing coach podcast digital social media content, influencer marketing, blogging, podcasting, blogging, tick tocking, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, SEO, SEM, PPC, email marketing, who there's a lot to cover, whether you're a marketing professional entrepreneur, or business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert advice. Good thing you've got Neil, on your side, because Neal Schaffer is your digital digital marketing marketing coach, helping you grow your business with digital first marketing one episode at a time. This is your digital marketing coach. And this is Neal Schaffer. Hey, friends, welcome to episode 259 of the your digital marketing coach podcast. This is your digital marketing coach, Neal Schaffer, how the heck are you doing? So I love doing guest interviews and mixing them up with my own solo episodes. And I love interviewing people that I've known for a while in social media, but we've never had a chance to virtually meet in real life. And what I mean by virtually meet is obviously in this new reality post COVID, just to have even a zoom conversation. So you're going to hear an interview between Terry Nakamura and myself. Now, Terry, as you're gonna hear, we've known each other on social media for probably close to a decade. And all of a sudden, she reached out to me some time ago, say, Neil, what do you think about Instagram, for blogging, and to be honest with you, it didn't click. Now, you may listen to this interview, it might not completely click but I believe when you hear Terry out, and you listen to the end of our conversation, you're gonna have an aha moment about how you can better leverage Instagram to truly communicate truly build relationships, yield engagement, and have impact on a platform that many of us sort of take for granted or see in a very, very different way. So you know what, that's enough for me. I want you to hear from Terry. So without further ado, here's my interview with Terry Nakamura, you're listening to your digital marketing coach, this is Neal Schaffer. Terry Nakamura, I am so excited to have you on the your digital marketing coach podcast. Welcome.

Terri Nakamura:

I'm honored to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Neal Schaffer:

So some of you may know, Terry, some of you may not know, Terry, but Terry, this is actually the first time we're seeing each other in person. And we have known each other I want to say it is Empire Avenue. Oh, that brought us together. And I needed for this conversation real to say that. Yeah, that is

Terri Nakamura:

insane. That's like, what, 10 or 12 years ago or something?

Neal Schaffer:

I don't think you know, maybe seven, eight, but yeah, several, but you are on 2009 I think now though, for those of you that don't know, it's really interesting because we talk about NF T's and maybe influencers, Joe Polizzi is big on influencers creating their own NF T's. And I think Empire Avenue was a stock market, a virtual stock market, where influencers had different prices of their virtual stock based on your social media activity. It sort of is like NF TS like before the end is

Terri Nakamura:

such an interesting correlation. I mean, you're right. And it was maybe a little ahead of its time and it did try to dabble in Bitcoin, you know, kind of its own Bitcoin currency briefly. Actually got out of it quite a few years ago.

Neal Schaffer:

Oh, me too. Me too. And but but from that, but from that we've been able to continue our, our conversations primarily, Neil. So Terry, so I thought you were some I mean, I'm a social media marketer. So I joined these things. And, you know, it was the days of cloud, we were all excited and we want to listen, so but you are not the same. Social media marketing is not your gig. So let's start with why on earth, what brought you to Empire Avenue and then we're gonna obviously fast forward to your new book. I

Terri Nakamura:

didn't, you know, it was kind of, I have, I was really good friends with red Sadler. I don't know if you know him

Neal Schaffer:

or not. I do know, right. He's in Minneapolis, right? Yep. Yep. So Reggie, and

Terri Nakamura:

I kind of jumped in around the same time and became really good buddies on that offline with them. Yeah, yeah, total. Okay. But I've noticed on Twitter since 2008, or something like that, or whenever I started on Twitter, it was a really long time ago.

Neal Schaffer:

Wow. Okay, so he got you into it. Yeah, we both

Terri Nakamura:

kind of found it at the same time. And I'm not really sure how that happened. But maybe it was Chris Perillo or somebody like that, because Chris was really majorly into that. Yep. In time, you know. So, it was super fun. I was obsessed. I get obsessed about every new thing that comes along. Which is maybe why I've never gotten involved with tic toc because I I don't I feel like it's such a time suck. And I've got plenty of those already. You know,

Neal Schaffer:

so I got 99 problems, but tic toc eight one. That's for sure. So how did you know I don't even know what Reggie does for a living. Because if you look at his social media, it's just he publishes a lot of content. His stock was really high in Empire Avenue. I remember. But is the I know now that obviously, you're you're a designer, graphic designer. I mean, you can go into more detail about that. But is that how you met rich?

Terri Nakamura:

We met on Twitter, we were just Twitter friends. I mean, originally, we met on Twitter. And I was really a late night Twitter junkie. So I would be on late at night. And so I had a lot of friends all over the world because in America, people seem people are asleep at that time of the night. But you know, all the vampire people like Raj and myself and others, you know, we kind of had like a late night posse, you know, so

Neal Schaffer:

what is it that you do for a living then, outside of the book, which we're going to talk about?

Terri Nakamura:

Primarily, I'm a graphic designer, okay. And I design websites and print collateral, I still do a lot of print collateral, like, you know, people who need actual things, you know, that they they hand out or, or use to distribute them? I haven't haven't done a print annual report for a while, but I used to do a lot of annual reports. Remember those? Like those? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, those were awesome projects, you know, because they were, you know remunerative. So, um, but yeah, it's, it's changed a lot. Now, most of the content I create now is digital. And, and I'm also doing consulting, you know, like, helping people with their social media, but not in the same way that you or you know, all the, you know, hotshot people that really understand this, it's more like, helping them develop content strategies for whatever they're doing, and then kind of setting it up for them to take over on their own. You know, so, you know, it's, it's kind of like, more of an initial guidance, I guess, because a lot of people don't know anything about any of it.

Neal Schaffer:

I hear ya. So did your presence on social media then attract new customers to your graphic design, or whatever social media was social media,

Terri Nakamura:

I've always said, I mean, I like having the awareness of people knowing that I'm a graphic designer. But it really hasn't, for me been a channel to develop business. And I And I've often said, I don't know that I would want to get customers off of social media, because I'm more word of mouth in terms of the people that I work for, you know, they recommend me to other people. And I like having that kind of connection and understanding of, of their, you know, validity and in honesty and stuff like that. In social media. It's kind of hard to tell really, you know, who you're dealing with sometimes. Yeah.

Neal Schaffer:

Oh, I agree. That's sort of one of the reasons why I was on and then I was off clubhouse. I don't know if that's one thing. Yeah, I another.

Terri Nakamura:

I had a brief love affair with clubhouse as well. So yeah.

Neal Schaffer:

And then these people started saying things. It's like, why you don't have a LinkedIn profile? You you say all these things, and it's unlike a lot of snake oil, which is what we thought about a lot of people in social media, and sometimes do as well, right?

Terri Nakamura:

Absolutely. And I think that that's, it's part of the landscape. You know, when you think about social media, it's like, the dog behind the computer, you know, like on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog kind of thing. You really can't tell. So fast forward.

Neal Schaffer:

And we've known each other on Instagram, and I know you have a Japanese last name, but don't actually speak Japanese. So you've taught me that, learn that your graphic design or what have you. And then one day, I want to say like two years ago, maybe it might have been a year and a half. You're like, Neil, what do you think about Instagram, as a blogging platform? Now? Tell? Have you ever did you ever set up a blog? And you know what I'm going to I'm going to tell you some I've never told anybody because Empire Avenue, right? A lot of people set up social media accounts. So they can increase their, their, you know, their post frequency value. Yeah, get their stock by right. I actually started in a Tumblr channel, a Tumblr blog that was completely automated. From I use the Yahoo pipes or set up some RSS feed, I actually got banned for life. Because they said, I've never told anyone because they said it was completely automated.

Terri Nakamura:

Telling millions of people.

Neal Schaffer:

Good riddance. I've never gotten on top. It's like, okay, I get it right. I'm bad. Slap my wrist. And so therefore I've never consulted. Thankfully, Tumblr did not become the next Instagram. But I'm just curious, did you ever so before we get into Instagram for blogging, obviously what your book is about? Did you ever have a blog? yourself?

Terri Nakamura:

Oh, yeah, I started blogging in 2005. Okay, I've had three different blogs, and they're on kind of life support right now.

Neal Schaffer:

Empire Avenue, then just like Ninja blog,

Terri Nakamura:

I mean, long before Empire Avenue ever. I was blogging, so. But I and I did start a Tumblr blog. And I just did like an automatic feed from you know, other things. But you didn't get on to my Tumblr, you know? So I think Instagram, yeah, Instagram has an automatic ability to just share over your Instagram to Tumblr. And so that's what I'm doing, basically.

Neal Schaffer:

Gotcha. And so you're blogging there. For more lifestyle, all of this is just completely separate. I mean, the way social media used to be and blogging used to be it's just completely separate from what you do for a living.

Terri Nakamura:

Yeah, for me, it was just because I really liked writing. So I wanted to just have a place to put my writing. And it was pretty random. And I had a lot of experts say, Terry, you need to drill down into the segment that you know, you should specialize in, in order to develop an audience. But I actually didn't care about that so much. I was just really interested in writing, and having some people engage with it. But you know, to be honest, it it there were times when I would get, you know, like 4050 comments on a blog post, but I had to work at it. You know, I really had to say, you know, like, send out to my, my best peeps, hey, I have a new post up, and then they'd go check it out and leave comments. But I just, you know, I don't want to do that. That is the pivot to why I started blogging on Instagram. Because before

Neal Schaffer:

you started blogging, was it before or after we, you mentioned that you also started taking some courses in digital marketing?

Terri Nakamura:

Oh, yeah, I went back to college for two years and got an A in digital marketing. That's all because I, you know, I've been using social media for a decade, I had no idea what was going on behind the curtains, you know, and, for me, it was just kind of a fun activity. And I really studied it a lot, I did a lot of reading and everything, but I didn't really I didn't know anything about the data behind any of that stuff in that it was important. You know, it was kind of it was definitely eye opening for me to learn all of those things. And I had to I had to learn how to do Google ads and Facebook ads and stuff, I will never do that, like, in my for myself or for anybody or DMA. But I had had to learn about, you know, all of that, all that stuff. And it was really, it was really great. And so now I feel like, I'm more informed about the way that that I tried to help other people, because it was pretty superficial before, you know, when I would try to help people with whatever they were doing on Twitter, or Instagram or whatever. But now I have a better understanding of it. And you know, just like proportions of content, what kinds of content to share and how much of it like, some people just want to like Mee Mee, mee, Mee Mee to broadcast about themselves all the time. And, and I know that that that formula has changed somewhat over the years, but but I think some people just feel like social media is there to be an advertising platform and, and they don't deliver any value. And that's why that geo police a book that I had to read in one of my classes was really enlightening. Because, you know, understanding the value in the education and the other things that you deliver to your audience. Those are the things that you know, kind of draw them to you. And, you know, and blogging is the same way just blogging was too much work, you know, for me to try to cultivate that kind of back and forth.

Neal Schaffer:

Right. So with this with your experience, blogging, and social media and now your A and digital marketing, you decide that you're going to write a book now, we hadn't talked about this before him but I'm assuming based on the conversation, the book is once again, it's almost like an extension of your blog. You just want to try to help people there's no I mean if it sells a lot awesome but it's really useful to share your perspective is

Terri Nakamura:

really wanted to write the book because Neil, I really felt like I stumbled on a secret when I was, you know, like just to backpedal a bit. I was having problems with my job. And it was Like at the point where I was kind of going through this personal angst, and I started writing a bit more on Instagram, then I noticed that people were like, interacting with me a whole lot more. And then the longer, you know, longer the post was the more kinds of engagement I was getting in. And I just went, Wow, this is a strange correlation, like, I would not have imagined that. And so once I realized what was happening, I just wanted to tell other people about it, because it was such a cool way to be able to dip your toe in the blogging waters, so to speak, and, and then and get gratification from it, you know, because sometimes you publish a blog post, and no one looks at it, you know, but you have your instant audience there on Instagram. So chances are, if you publish something, a blog post, you're going to get some feedback, some of some of the comments will just be hearts and stuff like that, right. But a lot of people really think about it. And you know, if you form your posts the same way you would do a normal blog post where you like, ask a question, or, you know, you know, kind of invite them to engage. They're, they're all over it, you know, and so I wanted to write a book about how to do that.

Neal Schaffer:

So you you wrote the book, did you work with a publisher, a self publisher,

Terri Nakamura:

I worked with a publisher, it's a hybrid publisher, new degree press. And at the very beginning, I mean, you were one of the people that I turned to in the beginning, because I wanted to do some research about it. And you were so nice to talk to me. I know, in a way, it was kind of like, I felt like, you know, you were patting me in the head, like, you know, yes, Terry. Sure. And you're you couldn't have been nicer. Oh, he was not totally discouraging. But you know, you were setting the reality for me of the way that way things really work. But, um, but I just decided I had to push on because I felt inside that it that it really was effective. So you know, I just went through with it. Basically, I

Neal Schaffer:

hope I was encouraging. I mean, yeah, there's a reality. But I encourage everybody, everybody has a great book, they should write, and

Terri Nakamura:

great, but it is a book, a great

Neal Schaffer:

book. And, and there for everyone listening, please write your book. It's funny, I usually send people it might have been before I had this video up, but I published the age of influence after running a campaign on a platform called publicize her. And I want to ask you about that. Yeah. And I know many people do a video when people ask me about a book if I know you, I'm gonna give you more answers. If I don't know you, I'm gonna go just watch this video I did with with one of the founders of public sizer. And that gives you all the what did you want to ask me and publicize it? Because I'm working on my next book. Now.

Terri Nakamura:

I was just really curious about it. Because it was, if I understand it correctly, it is not a traditional publishing platform. It's not like going to, you know, one of the the normal, you know, publishers of books, it's is it kind of a hybrid? Well,

Neal Schaffer:

let me ask you, how did you find your publisher?

Terri Nakamura:

I found it because a professor from Georgetown University, Eric Koster contacted me on LinkedIn and and he said, I noticed that you like writing, have you ever thought about writing a book? And I said, Yes. So. So then he had a course at creator Institute, which is in Washington, DC, and I signed up for this course. And I learned the basics of writing a book through this course. And then after I finished it, and then I was, you know, work with a whole bunch of different editors and people that that they have on staff, and then I went to the next phase, which was working with the publisher, and all of their, you know, all their support people. So they I really had a lot of, you know, people on my team, holding my hand all the way through and teaching me things because there's no way I could have done it. I mean, my book launched like, number one in 10 categories on Amazon, the first month, you know, and that was all because of them, you know, because of the kind of guidance I got from them. So, so they

Neal Schaffer:

were sponsors of this crater Academy then and that's how that connection was made?

Terri Nakamura:

Well, I think creator Institute is, is like, it's a thing that grew out of Eric's course at Georgetown. He teaches the same course at Georgetown. Okay. He recognized that he wanted to reach a lot more people so he started creator Institute is the way I understand it. And I don't know if he he founded new degree press or if it was an outgrowth of it, but together, they they offer pretty much a full spectrum of services to people. The only difference is you don't get a row, you don't get a payment up front. Like with a traditional publisher, I don't remember what that's called when they give you a big chunk of money and then you have to sell books against it. It's you own, you know, 100% of your content. So like if I decided I wanted to do a audiobook, I could just record them on my own and they would get no part of it whatsoever. Right, right. So you know, I was wondering if publishers the same way publishers sizer, same way.

Neal Schaffer:

So you knew Eric, you're from social media, he reached out to you then actually, I didn't know him at all. He it was, it was a cold email, he might have been using a LinkedIn automation tool to

Terri Nakamura:

write well, it was too, it was too personalized to seem automated. Okay. And so but once we started talking, I just thought it was really strange that he asked me if I'd been considering writing book, because it was really at that moment that I was going through that experience with Instagram and decided, God, I really should share this with people. So they can do it. Because it's so easy, it's easier, it's easier than doing a blog, I don't discourage people from blogging, I think blogging is really important for all the other reasons, some of which you shared with me, you know, during our conversation, but I felt like, but for someone who's just dabbling in it, they didn't want to go to the expense of setting up a site and being responsible for all that stuff, you know, and, and I realized it's rented space, I learned that from you rented, versus owned. And, you know, I felt like, but it's okay. Because if you're just starting out, you can kind of get a feeling for it, make, you know, do whatever you want. Like, if you don't like the post, or the performance of it, you can remove it, just like anywhere else. But you know, it's, I think it's a really great place to experiment with people who want to write and have an audience, you know, and engage with the audience.

Neal Schaffer:

So it's so funny how these random connections. And I mean, just like our meeting today is somewhat of this this random Ness that brought us together. Because, you know, I've written four books, my first two were self published, never dreamed of working with a publisher. And it was my third book, where I had, I'd written my first two books about LinkedIn. And my second book was more of like a say up b2b sales, social media marketing book, when an author of sales books reached out to me and said, Neil, I would love to feature your book as a recommended resource in my book, are you okay with that? I mean, of course, I'm involved with that. So we had a phone conversation, you wanted to get know more about me? And he goes, by the way, I published with Wiley who do the for Dummies books. Would you like an introduction? Literally a week later, I had a signed deal with Wiley. And that ended up being Wow,

Terri Nakamura:

that is so amazing. And cool, fast forward.

Neal Schaffer:

Fast forward to using publicize so publicize our is a Kickstarter. So let's say, Terry, when you want to write your next book, you want to already get pre orders for it, you would start a campaign on Kickstarter on publicize excuse me, and then you send people the link, and they can actually buy your book, even if you haven't started writing it yet. You can only use it to like AB test ideas. And so I had this idea for booking influencer marketing, and I'm going to test it right. I hadn't started writing it. I think I said I was 25% done with it, because I had some blog posts. But anyway, I put it up there. And what happens is because it's a Kickstarter for authors, there's all sorts of publishers that are monitoring the campaign. Oh, interesting. There is traditional publishers, there's hybrid publishers, there's people that will help you get Self Publishers, editors, there's book designers, if that's something you wanted to go into that and so they look at how many pre orders you get, right? And you want to get 500, I was able to get 500. So I got a lot of visibility. Oh, great. And the funny thing is, I was literally negotiating with a Dutch publisher, who promised me if I went to Amsterdam, this is before COVID. I could do you know, I could do speaking events there. And he said there was this huge, like Amazon, for some reason was not active in the Netherlands. So he said that they've had Dutch business books that have sold like 5060 70,000 copies in Dutch, right? We

Terri Nakamura:

macro. Another thing I wanted to ask you about was I know your books have been translated. I'm like, Whoa, how? How did you go about doing that? You know?

Neal Schaffer:

Alright, so I'm gonna get to that, right. This is going round about but But literally, we were already in negotiations. And sorry, my wife is asking me about my son's high school counselors appointment. I'll get to her later. But literally at that time, I started to do webinars about the book because I wanted to sell more pre orders, right. And one guy who, you know, I wrote on LinkedIn in the webinar, he goes me Oh, that was such an awesome webinar. Have you considered a publisher for your next book? I'm like, Well, you know, tell me more about what you think he was actually Marketing Manager at HarperCollins leadership, who ended up becoming my publisher for the age of influence through that introduction. So no, I never worked with an agent. It all happened through these random sort of connections at credible publishers. I recommend everybody because it gets visibility. Right. It allows you to get pre orders, get visibility test ideas, and I'm currently working on my fifth book. I I wish I was further along, but I will be using publicize it again. And HarperCollins leadership as most publishers because it's traditional they have the right of refusal. So If they say, No, we want to work with you again, I'll work with them. But it doesn't stop me from getting pre orders. Right?

Terri Nakamura:

So this is the the value of the publisher, the distribution channels, like, you know, getting your book into bookstores and stuff like that.

Neal Schaffer:

The promotions the same, they're not going to do any promotion for you. Yeah, I mean, unless you know, John Lee Dumas entrepreneurs on fire, big podcaster. He's signed with HarperCollins leadership. And, you know, I think that if you're someone that has a huge platform, like Pat Flynn, or what have you, they probably have a limited marketing budget, because traditional publishers aren't doing as well as they used to with the internet and Amazon, but they do strategically invest in certain authors like Gary Vaynerchuk. Right, who's also on HarperCollins. So, but, you know, lowly, little old Neal Schaffer, I'm not gonna get much help. And this is to say, most authors, I know who work with traditional publishers, they're surprised, but you got to do the promotions yourself. What they give you though, is, you're not paying for graphic design, you're not paying for editing, you're not paying for you have this whole infrastructure able to use. They were, you know, originally the book was called the business of influence. And they actually tested out a few different ideas with their booksellers who knew the market really well. So I'm getting a little bit of Intel right from them. And then obviously, the distribution, the worldwide distribution, which includes the selling of foreign language rights, which wildly I never got anywhere with maximize your social, but with the age of influence, HarperCollins leadership has been successful, you know, Mandarin, Chinese, Vietnamese, Bulgarian and Arabic.

Terri Nakamura:

Amazing. You've been able to do that. It's yeah, it's purely

Neal Schaffer:

them. Right. And from my perspective, it's like, I just want as many people to read this as possible. It's not you don't make money off the book, you make money off people who read the book, who reach out and want to hire you, right. So um, so yeah, that was my my whole thing. And yes, if you know, if I would do it again, I enjoy partnerships. I enjoy when the other side has skin in the game. And I enjoy it. If I have the opportunity to work with a traditional publisher for my next book, I will but if not, you know, the promotion is the same. It doesn't really change the way I operate. Although I might have to hire like an editor and you know, a graphic designer, what have you

Terri Nakamura:

the route that I took, they did have a staff of graphic designers and production people and editors and proofreaders and, and all that stuff. But that said, I don't think there's ever been anything published that came out without any mistakes in it. Right? Sure. Sure. And so you know, after my book was printed, and I read it, I was like, Oh, this, this pains me so much that I said, said this in that way, etc. So I came out with a hard bound version after the fact, which is kind of aspect word if you think about it, right? Because usually, the hard bound comes up first. Yeah, I did a hard read version with an afterword because so many things about Instagram had changed since I published it that I wanted to write an afterword to address some of those things. And that I think, gave me kind of a, this, this feeling like I was actually a legitimate author, you know, and I don't think I could have done it without having that team of people who were there to support me, you know, helping me with my book jacket and helping me go in and make all the the edits on the text and, and stuff like that.

Neal Schaffer:

And that's why the hybrid publishing model is compared to that the self publishing where I had to hire anyone and everyone, for everything I did. That's where the hybrid publisher, you do pay up front where you get, you know, copies of your book. But if you're going to do it on your own, you got to pay anyway, right? So why not work with a professional team? So I think that's great. And that's definitely a possibility for my next book of working with a hybrid publisher as well, who knows. So really interesting. And then you write this book about Instagram for blogging. So when you first contacted me, I'm like, you know, you have like your blog, your content marketing, you got social media. But over time, Terry, what I've noticed is, you know, tick tock has really emerged with this, but tick tock, you just have one link, right. But that link can actually drive a business, which does for a lot of influencers. And you could say the same about Instagram. It is like a little website with one link, and there's like tools you can use, but at the end of the day, you're trying to drive awareness. And what I've noticed very, very interesting is I use a tool called tailwind to manage my Pinterest. I don't know if you I assume you're on Pinterest. Right?

Terri Nakamura:

Sort of I mean, I've had an account there since it was in beta, but do I use it? Not really.

Neal Schaffer:

Okay. So yeah, so Pinterest, I use a tool called tailwind to help manage it. And tailwind has something called tailwind communities, where people share content that they want the other people to share on their board. So it's sort of like this community of people who share a lot of content. And I've noticed that some of the people who share pins, normally a pin is an image that would go back to a website. But I noticed more and more people have pins that go to Instagram posts. Oh, that's interesting, where they're basically using Instagram, like a blog, and it's maybe a carousel post with 10 different images and they're explaining something and then it makes sense because you're on Instagram, you hopefully get engagement, which helps with the algorithm and then you have a website link that can take them that so it can become your main marketing channel, even though it's not a true blog,

Terri Nakamura:

is it like some kind of subscription or dashboard? Or what is it? What is it?

Neal Schaffer:

So tailwind is a scheduling tool, okay, for Pinterest, but they also do Instagram. They also do Facebook, now, they have a Lincoln bio tool as well. And they they are so predominant in the Pinterest marketing community, that they have so many users that are very active on Pinterest that they created a new functionality called communities, which I believe it might be free, I have an invite link, which I'll send you but I'll also put in the show notes, which allows people to join what they call communities used to call tribes, but they they stop that language and, and share content. And yeah, so so yeah. And you can find there's literally hundreds of communities, if not 1000s. And you know, you might have like mommy bloggers that talk about, you know, child rearing,

Terri Nakamura:

oh, like how much time does it take to invest in like laying the groundwork for something like that? Do you know what I mean? Like, every time you expand into something new, there's an investment attached to it. So is it worth the squeeze? Do you think?

Neal Schaffer:

So here's my take, first of all, I am a marketer. So I do this for a living. So part of this is r&d, right of upping my game like you may try a new digital graphic design tool for the same reason. So my situations a little bit different. I will say that if you are a b2c company that is targeting a female demographic, that Pinterest is a very, very good social network to be. If you have a visual way of representing what you do, or you have a visual product or service, it's even better for that platform. So you can't be everywhere. You don't need to be everywhere. But I would just just published a blog post of these like 55, top social media marketing stats, and a majority of Americans are on more than one social network,

Terri Nakamura:

right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that same.

Neal Schaffer:

So you know, for me with Pinterest and with tailwind, who are an approved Pinterest partner, I can automate this. Oh, that's very cool. And I have a staff that I use, I don't do all this myself. And I have created my own system of hiring around the world, very, very talented people that help an hour here an hour there that allow me to have this infrastructure in place where I can be in a lot of different places.

Terri Nakamura:

So smart. I mean, I, I just recommended to one of my clients that she hires a virtual assistant or a couple of them to manage different parts of what we're trying to do. And I just feel like, you have to prioritize, you know, where your time is going to be the most valuable, right?

Neal Schaffer:

Totally, absolutely. Amen to that. So, so that's where it's like, Ha, maybe Terry is making a lot of sense with Instagram for blogging. Now I know you face it, you you have a different perspective on it. But tell me as you decided to write the book, and as you started to see, you know, engagement from your own blogging there, what how did this sort of evolve into finishing the book,

Terri Nakamura:

one thing it's forced me to, to continue on Instagram, right? Because life gets really busy. And sometimes it gets difficult for me, I I only post once a week, which is kind of like, unheard of, because most people try to post daily or multiple times a day. If I can just get one post up a week that that's enough to sustain my interest, and also kind of reinforce what I'm talking about in the book. You know, if somebody buys the book, and they go, then it's fairly current, you know, whatever they see on my, my Instagram. I'm sorry, could you rephrase that question again?

Neal Schaffer:

So you began this idea of a book, where you were sharing your own thoughts, and you found people engaging with it right out? How did sort of that thought evolve into a full blown book?

Terri Nakamura:

It was because I was also a blogger. And I knew how hard I had to work to get feedback on my blog posts, you know, and you put a lot of work into blog posts, you know, like, I just did a guest post for somebody and I spent 12 hours on it. And I was doing research and writing and collecting graphics and embedding hyperlinks and doing all that work for her right keywords and whatnot. Takes a lot of time where you really can't do a lot of those things on Instagram, but you do have the opportunity to post you know, multiple links now, which is helpful. It's not the same as a hyperlink but it's pretty good and I'm really surprised sometimes that how many people go up to my my Lincoln bio and check out different things that are on my multiple links, like what they check out and how often And to me that that feels, at least as maybe more satisfying than it was on my, my any of my blogs, I have three, I still have three active blogs that are, you know, not not put to sleep. And I may resurrect them and reinvent one of them to support my book pretty much exclusively, or Instagram at least. But I just felt like, the analytics aren't deep the way they are on a blog post, you can't use Google Analytics on on Instagram. But you can collect other kinds of data that that will indicate whether or not you're on the right track with something and what kinds of things resonate how many times you get on to the Explore page and stuff like that. And that that's really important, I think, to kind of build an audience and awareness, so you get other benefits. And there is a search engine on on Instagram, not like Google, but when you're on Instagram, you're not going to go to Google, you're gonna be on Instagram and search for what you're looking for on Instagram. So it's kind of like, they're two completely different functions, you know, Google Google Search versus Instagram search, because when you're on that platform, you're looking for certain things on the platform, you don't really care about what's happening on Google, you know, so.

Neal Schaffer:

So for those that are listening, that went to take advantage of Instagram as a blogging platform, would you say that your book, or your advice is more applicable to maybe entrepreneurs, business owners, content creators that don't have a blog? And they can sort of reinvent what they do on Instagram as a blog? Or do you see it for companies that have blogs, they should be once again reinventing how they use Instagram, so that every piece of content they publish, there is more like an extension of their blog, or something different,

Terri Nakamura:

it gets both, Neil because if you're a novice, I mean, it, there's nothing easier. But if you are someone who maintains a blog on a, like an owned blog, or a company that has a blog, I've seen people excerpt parts of their blogs on Instagram, and then in and say, if you want to know more about this, there's a link in my bio, and usually multiple links, you know, to on the, on that thing. And so it's a way of kind of just giving people a taste of whatever it is that you're you're writing about. And some things resonate with people, and they're very curious, and they'll, they'll pursue it. And so, you know, I've seen that happen on my own Instagram, you know, for for various things, like I was doing some research and I wanted to see, I wanted to collect opinions about certain things. So I created one of those Survey Monkey things, you know, and I was really amazed at how many people went to the link and did the survey. And so I really was able to collect a pretty random sample of of information that I ended up using for a project. So those kinds of things can happen, you know, it's not, it is random, really, I mean, it's random, based on whoever your followers are. It's not like worldwide randomness. But, you know, I think most people who do random sampling, you don't really mean how are those people ever really selected? Yeah, and

Neal Schaffer:

I think anyone that's ever done a real that's gotten a few 1000 views, I have a video that has gotten the Explore page it got like, you know, 10,000 views in 24 hours and nominal get you experience, it had nothing to do with what I do for I was in Japan and there was a something called role ice cream, where they they roll out this ice cream, flatten it, so I made this like three minute process into a one minute video, which, you know, a lot of foodies loved. So it did nothing for my business didn't get many followers, but but it's just remind you that this is a huge market, it is its own search engine,

Terri Nakamura:

it is an awareness of people who had never heard of you before. That's true. And that's like, you know, tapping into people that would never know who you are. Right? And because of that they do so. I mean, there's a certain amount of value to that, I think,

Neal Schaffer:

but I think what you're talking about is also in a different way a different approach to what I talked about, which is really make every piece of content that you publish count, care about the other person you know, and Hanley probably another author that you read in school but you know make make make every email a love letter right? When I went to Facebook headquarters, I said the same thing to two businesses that are complaining they don't get any return the algorithm did every post you make sound like a love letter to your fans, right? So you can imagine that if you treat social media if you treat Instagram in that way, as you are putting the attention creating a blog post and every post you you publish there, it can be really really impactful because it really is a personal platform. And you can personally connect with people and engage with people in that way. So I can see how blogging on Instagram might even be more impactful. Because of that, then just blogging digital eight and helping people find you on Google.

Terri Nakamura:

I totally agree. Because the people that you are regularly interacting with on Instagram, they, they become friends. I mean, they become like real friends, and an example of somebody in Russia, who was suddenly disappeared. And then he came back probably got a VPN or something, you know, I don't know, but to reconnect, and to kind of know what they're going through. And he really was clueless about what the world was seeing of Russia until I said, please take a look at this. And he was like, Holy mackerel, you know, I had no idea. I mean, he really did not have any idea how the world was viewing what was going on. So it's like, you have these friendships, people, you know, through, it starts through commenting, right, and it kind of develops into a much deeper, deeper level. And I never really had that happen on my blog, like, I would get comments, you know, from strangers, but they never really gravitated to any other place, like, you know, like a personal conversation of any sort. So,

Neal Schaffer:

yeah, and my big thing with Instagram is, I'm a big fan of a Japanese musician, named Idaho, me. And through Instagram, I've been able to connect with some of her biggest fans, people that actually met at her concert and got married. So, you know, I got to the point where I was getting invited to her concerts, and not only would I get like, you know, really, really good seats, even though I'm based in the United States, I don't live in Japan, they had these amazing after parties, where, you know, these are people that have met the artist, they've been following her for, you know, 20 years, they get to anyway, so I know how impactful Instagram can be in terms of developing relationships.

Terri Nakamura:

I know, it's really, it's incredible. It's like, that kind of stuff doesn't happen on Twitter. I mean, I've met hundreds of people from Twitter, like at conferences and stuff like that, but it's a very different thing, many of these people on Instagram, you will probably never meet because of, you know, because of proximity. But people do, do come to Seattle, and, like, take time to meet them for coffee and stuff like that. So, you know.

Neal Schaffer:

So for those that are listening that say, you know, alright, Terry, I'm sold, I want to leverage instrument more, more of as a blogging platform, what are just, you know, without giving away all the secrets of your book, but what are what are, you know, one or two things you might be able to, you know, teach them or advise them to do if they really want to get the most out of Instagram.

Terri Nakamura:

I think that when you're writing a post, you need to make sure that you're setting it up and inviting people in, and I would call it starting with the hook, you know, when you're writing something, so it gets their attention, of course, you have to have a good visual, you know, or some kind of visual thing that will initially get their attention, but starting with a hook, and then kind of telling, you know, explaining whatever it is, and then ending with an invitation for them to engage, like asking their opinion, asking them a question, asking for their advice, anything, you know, so so they feel kind of compelled to jump in and share their experiences with you. So, and it's important to then interact with the comments that people make, because I think one of the sad mistakes is that a lot of people collect comments, and they just kind of put a little heart by it and think you're done. You know, but that isn't really a great way to build a relationship with, you know, with your audience, the best way is to acknowledge that they took the time to read it and say something and, and I feel like if you just you know, those are kind of like the the very basic parts of it. But if you were just to do those things alone, I think it would make a difference.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome. Terry Nakamura, thank you so much. Tell us the name of your book again. And where can people go to buy it as well as connect with you?

Terri Nakamura:

Okay, so the book is called blogging on Instagram engagement, writing on one of the world's best social media platforms and, and you can find it on Amazon. But if you were just search blogging on Instagram book, just in general, it's going to come up you know, and it'll, it'll offer a lot of different places where you can purchase it. It's it an eBook, a paperback

Neal Schaffer:

and a hard bound book. Awesome. And then where can people find out more about you? Well, I'm

Terri Nakamura:

basically all over the, y'all. I know it's, it's like crazy, but, but I would, I would say that LinkedIn Probably has, has a good amount of information about me. So, you know, LinkedIn would be a good place to start. I don't spend a lot of time there, though. I mean, you and a lot of people I know, do but I just haven't done that.

Neal Schaffer:

So linkedin.com/in/terry Nakamura, right. And then I assume people can reach out to you on Instagram as well. Right. Terry Nakamura, Jerry Nakamura

Terri Nakamura:

on Twitter, Instagram, you know, all over the place, I've been able to keep the same, the same name

Neal Schaffer:

is T RR i, and it'll be in the show notes as well. But Terry, thank you so much for your time and sharing your story. It's very inspiring. And I hope that people get a lot out of this interview.

Terri Nakamura:

Okay, thank you so much for having me. Wasn't

Neal Schaffer:

that awesome? Terry is one of the nicest people that you'll ever meet, I really hope that you'll reach out to her after we recorded that episode. We started communicating on Twitter, and she's getting lots of engagement for her tweets. If you view her Instagram, she gets a lot of engagement there as well. She's just a genuinely awesome person. And I hope that you'll reach out to her and you become a fan of hers like I am. Hey, did you know that in addition to this podcast, I have a website. In fact, I have two websites, I have podcast dot Neal schaffer.com, which is where this podcast sits. It's I have all the show notes. I have all the transcripts, I have all the links, you can actually listen to all of my episodes there. If you're thinking of switching podcast apps, I have links to wherever you can find this podcast. So check that out. But I also have Neal schaffer.com that has a blog. The blog is building and getting close to having 500 unique blog posts, each one specifically designed to answer questions that you have about something that is related to digital or social media marketing. More importantly, on that website, I just launched a freebies page. So if you go to the menu, you're going to see something that says freebies. And if you go there, it's Neal schaffer.com/freebies, F r e bi, yes, you're gonna see all of the free downloads that I have made available. I am continuing to increase these downloads, but it's where I have my free email marketing guide. It's where I have my digital and social media marketing tools. God, I review 50 different tools. They're sort of like this definitive book that you should check out if you're thinking of switching or looking for a specific tool. And they're all categorized. I have my maximizing LinkedIn for business book, The 2022 edition, and I have a preview of the age of influence. I continue to add I'm currently working on a guest blogging for SEO EBook, which I can't wait to release in the near future. So check it out. Neal schaffer.com/freebies. Make sure you sign up. If you haven't signed up to my email list. Well, by downloading a freebie, I will ask for your permission to send you communication and we can keep in touch there. But hey, that's it for another episode of The your digital marketing coach podcast. This is your digital marketing coach Neal Schaffer signing off. You've been listening to your digital marketing coach, questions, comments, requests, links, go to podcast dot Neal schaffer.com. Get the show notes to this and 200 plus podcast episodes and Neal schaffer.com to tap in to the 400 plus blog posts that Neil has published to support your business. While you're there, check out Neil's Digital First group coaching membership community if you or your business needs a little helping hand. See you next time on your digital marketing coach.