Your Digital Marketing Coach with Neal Schaffer

Pinterest Marketing: It's Time to Diversify Your Social Media Marketing [Kate Ahl Interview]

May 19, 2022 Neal Schaffer Episode 267
Your Digital Marketing Coach with Neal Schaffer
Pinterest Marketing: It's Time to Diversify Your Social Media Marketing [Kate Ahl Interview]
Show Notes Transcript

If you've ever been curious about Pinterest, or are looking for ways to diversify your social media marketing, this episode is for you.

Kate Ahl is the undisputed Queen of Pinterest marketing. In this episode she shares with us everything you need to know about the why and how of Pinterest marketing.

Key Highlights

[03:09] Introduction to Podcast Guest, Kate Ahl

[05:33] How Kate Started on Pinterest

[07:12] Special Characteristic of an Average Pinner

[09:33] Companies That Would Best be Served by Pinterest

[13:11] Understanding Pinterest Analytics

[14:14] The First Steps You Should Do With Pinterest

[15:33] Pinterest Guided Search

[16:09] Pinterest Lens

[18:28] What Makes Some Pinterest Accounts More Successful than Others?

[22:51] Pinterest Image Trick

[24:16] Pin Formats

[29:33] My Pinterest Data

[32:05] Why You Should Advertise on Pinterest

[35:13] What to Look Out for on Pinterest in the Upcoming Months

[42:12] Connect with Kate

Notable Quotes

  • Pinterest is a great informer of purchases.
  • But oftentimes, what people fail to realize is that if you're already creating content, or you're writing articles, with Pinterest, it's just a simple switch of an image.
  • What we tell people, if you're going to think about approaching the platform right away, is to get your profile set up, get a business account, get your profile set up, and think of it as how can I showcase who I am and what I do in this very top of the profile piece so people know right away.
  • Images really need to be where your branding shines.
  • But I think that people the power of sharing amongst the people is real. So people want to see it, they're gonna see it.
  • one of the things that you and I had talked about before is Pinterest still drives so much traffic, compared to all the other platforms that have really shut it off, for the sake of the pay-to-play. Pinterest still is an environment where you can just do organic marketing, you don't have to necessarily go into the pay to play.
  • Our goal is to make Pinterest marketing accessible for everybody in a way that does not confuse them in a way that does not overwhelm them but gets them straight to the heart of what they need to know, as well as keeps them informed.

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Neal Schaffer:

In episode 265 I talked about the diversification of your marketing. In this episode, we're gonna go a little bit further into diversifying the social networks that you're on and social media specifically, don't skip ahead. But specifically, in this one episode you're gonna learn all you need to know about why and how to get started on Pinterest so stay tuned to this next episode of The your digital marketing coach podcast. Digital social media content influencer marketing, blogging, podcasting, blogging, tick talking LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, SEO, SEM, PPC, email marketing, whew. There's a lot to cover. Whether you're a marketing professional entrepreneur, or business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert advice. Good thing you've got Neil, on your side, because Neal Schaffer is your digital digital marketing marketing coach, helping you grow your business with digital first marketing one episode at a time. This is your digital marketing coach. And this is Neal Schaffer. Hey, everybody, Neal Schaffer here. Welcome to episode number 267 of the your digital marketing coach podcast. This is your digital marketing coach, how the heck you doing? I hope you enjoyed the previous episode number 266. on everything, web three, I still look back to all your feedback. If you haven't listened to it yet. I would love to hear what you thought about it. And if you want to hear me talk more about those subjects. But until then, let's look at Pinterest because that's what we're going to be talking about today with a very, very special guest. And when you hear the interview, you're gonna hear how much of a fan I am of Kate all and her company simple pin media and her podcast simple pin podcast, which is one of the top 10 podcasts that I list every year on my blog post of the same name. But Pinterest has always been a special network because it always generates a lot of traffic after Twitter. Pinterest generates the second most amount of traffic to Neal schaffer.com. In some years, it actually provides more traffic and Facebook and LinkedIn combined. Now my content is b2b content. So everybody thinks Pinterest is just for b2c young female demographic, which I'm not saying that's not true. But as a diversifier pinchers can play a very, very powerful role. And in fact, as you'll hear, when I talk about idea pins and repurposing and Instagram carousel, you might already have a lot of the content you need to start getting impressions and clicks from Pinterest today. So regardless, if you're b2c b2b nonprofit, I want you to really have an open mind and listen in because if there's only one episode you listen to about Pinterest, let this be it because you're gonna get schooled by literally the queen, the ultimate thought leader of Pinterest marketing, Kate Hall. So hey, I think I've cued up the interview in half. Let's jump right into the interview. Let's go. You're listening to your digital marketing coach. This is Neal Schaffer. Kate all I am so excited to welcome you to the your digital marketing coach podcast.

Kate Ahl:

Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you.

Neal Schaffer:

So for those of you that don't know, every year I put out a well it's evergreen content. So it's, you know, the best 10 Social Media Marketing podcasts and listened to. And the simple Tim podcast, which is Kate's podcast is always on that list, because just like and I know we're going to talk a little bit about tailwind today, probably Kate. But just like for one specific social network. There is one killer tool that is better than any of them, which is tailwind and Pinterest. If there's one podcast or really one person that I think is a true thought leader and the only thought leader in a social network. It is Kate all for Pinterest. I really mean that. So thank you so much for joining us. I know that everybody listening is gonna get a ton out of this.

Kate Ahl:

Well, I'm super flattered by that intro and I will say I love I've started thinking of myself as like a Pinterest historian a little bit. I have all this history of how it's grown and get to follow so I'm excited to share that with your listeners.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, there's no you know, I always talked about and I was on your podcast, you know, recording recently talking about how after Twitter Pinterest has always generated the second most traffic for my site. Neal Schaffer doc Come over sites like Facebook and LinkedIn, which always really shocks people. So I love talking about the value of Pinterest and within the Pinterest community, there's been a lot of debate recently. But outside of that, for my listeners that are getting into social media, or have already been in social media and maybe haven't looked at Pinterest, what what is the deal with Pinterest? And maybe before you can answer that, man, I'm really sorry, I didn't give you a chance to really introduce yourself and how you got involved in Pinterest. I think that's probably going to lead into the value that others should see on Pinterest.

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, so I got started actually in Pinterest back in 2012. When I was working for a blog, it was a frugal and dill blog. And we were using Facebook primarily for our marketing. And that's when they started to basically turn off the faucet of the business page growth because they wanted to move to pay to play. And all of a sudden, all these content creators thought, Well, where do I go to get traffic next. And because Pinterest was just two years old, they were really confused by it, they were like, Well, isn't that the thing I just used for recipes. I don't even know how to get on. It used to be Invite Only it was very confusing. But we jumped over there right away and started posting a lot of our articles. And what we saw was that people were clicking and saving like crazy. It was like that faucet that had been turned off for Facebook was now turned on for Pinterest. And what was so unique about it was that the conversation was removed. So while on Facebook, we were looking at threads and commenting back to people and sharing all this kind of communal aspect with them. On Pinterest, we were just a one and done. We were sharing with them the tool or the resource or the post, and then they would come to our site to then begin that process of engaging with us. So that's how I really fell in love with it and realized it could be a great tool in your whole like marketing suite of products.

Neal Schaffer:

Excellent. And it reminded me of two things that you often talk about on your podcast. Number one that Pinterest is more of an introvert social network. So maybe you can go in a little bit deeper about that special characteristic of the average pinner.

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, so one of the things we tell people before they approach Pinterest for marketing is to remember that the pinner is an introvert. So they approach the platform not really ready to engage in any conversation, and very much interested in their own life. They come with a question or an idea or a dream. And they want to curate their boards on their profile to reflect what they want their essentially their perfect life to be whether it's a future event, or whether it's a future place they want to travel or products they want to try. So they're not interested in an influencer, they're not interested in a brand, they're really only interested in, kind of I picture them as their head down, they open up the app, and it's like nobody talked to me, I am on a mission just to curate my own life. And that's a really important distinction from say, Instagram, where we go there to follow people, and we go there to get consumed in their lives. It's very much an extroverted platform. So that's how we see the difference and why we refer it to the introverts platform.

Neal Schaffer:

And I think that also relates to another important characteristic that you often talk about that we should definitely discuss. Which is, well, it's sort of like when you're searching on Google, you're being an introvert as well, you're in your own world, and you're just looking for information, you don't really care about the URL or the domain or whose it is you're you're looking at the title and description. Does that fit your need? And maybe we can understand Pinterest along those lines as well. Right?

Kate Ahl:

Yes, absolutely. And I would say that when people go to Pinterest, you know, like, when I go to Google I look at are they answering my question? And then I'll also usually look at the date like is it relevant? With Pinterest? People are really only saying, Does this answer a question or fill in need that I have? I don't even care when it was posted. It could have been posted seven years ago. If it still fits that need, then I'm going to save it or I'm going to click on it to go visit the website.

Neal Schaffer:

So we've established and without saying it in so many words that Pinterest is a social network for introverts. As a business, I suppose I mean, the way I like to say it is you're you're either in that search engine or you're not right. Yeah. So who are the companies listening that you think would be best served by being more invested in Pinterest?

Kate Ahl:

So number one, I would say content creators who especially are marketing to consumers, so if you are talking in the food space in the home decor, space health and fitness, even finance, there's a pretty wide amount of room for people who write articles. Pinterest users like to gather A lot of resources so that they can read more and learn more. And then if they don't have time to finish consuming that content, they could save it for later. And then the other area of people that we say is good. Pinterest is good for is E commerce, both physical and digital. Because Pinterest is a great informer of purchases. And people usually go to Pinterest three to six months before they'll actually hit the buy button. And so Pinterest wants to become a place where e commerce business owners can actually get their products in front of more people. And now they're working on shortening that timeframe, from three to six months to almost instant with potentially testing out this Buy button on the platform. So we tell people, if you're content creators, if your E commerce, we do see some coaches, especially in the wellness space do pretty good over there to the only niche we would say that it really doesn't fit for is a local establishment that doesn't have an online component. Because Pinterest is very national, very global. And local doesn't really do very well on the platform.

Neal Schaffer:

Gotcha. So even, you know, I suppose my content and even your content are examples of b2b content on Pinterest. Yes, even for some b2b, there is still some potential would you say?

Kate Ahl:

Absolutely. 100%. And I, it's funny that I left that out, because that is you and I, I would say that's a big one for people to come across our content, especially in the How to or maybe it's something where they might be interested in digital marketing, or they might be interested in Pinterest marketing, if they've ever at any time searched or expressed interest, even though they don't follow us. Pinterest will populate that content for them, because they've given them signals that they're interested in that.

Neal Schaffer:

And that's the search engine. That is Pinterest can work in your benefit, right?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, exactly.

Neal Schaffer:

So we've established that Pinterest is this network, you know, it doesn't have as many users as a Facebook or an Instagram or Tiktok. But it still has a pretty significant user base. I guess why? For those that haven't invested in it yet? Why do you think they haven't invested in Pinterest?

Kate Ahl:

You know, the number one reason we hear from people is just general confusion. Like they don't understand where to put it. It's almost like, you know, ones that we hear about all the time, the Instagram, the tick tock. They don't know how to categorize Pinterest compared to those. So they say like, well, I use it personally, but I can't figure out how to use it for my business. And I what are people searching? What do people do? So it's just generally a misunderstanding of the platform.

Neal Schaffer:

Interesting? And would you agree that for those that have that misunderstanding, if they were to get an account and get a business account and get some content, they would get access to analytics, and trend reports that Pinterest provides that really, you know, are equal or even superior to some of the Analects they get in other platforms in terms of, you know, what are people searching for? How can they serve them?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, that's the thing with Pinterest analytics that have gotten so good within the last two years, is you can get really granular, really detailed about where people are saving your pins, what their boards are named, there's just so much there that they can really look into. And again, a lot of it is just not knowing what to do with the data or how to interpret it in order to create a marketing plan. But oftentimes, what people fail to realize is that if you're already creating content, or you're writing articles, with Pinterest, it's just a simple switch of an image. It's that's really it, the image is a two to three instead of a square. And then you pin it to Pinterest, link it back to your website. And that's pretty much it.

Neal Schaffer:

Gotcha. So where would someone that says, Okay, I want to know if my target audience is on Pinterest. Yeah. What would be the first steps you recommend? Obviously, if they're already on Pinterest, they can look at their analytics and what have you. But if they're not, what would you suggest their first step would be to just confirmed that? Yes, they should be on Pinterest.

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, number one, I would get an account on the app. It doesn't have to be a business account or anything like that, just so you can search around. So there's a search bar at the top, we tell people to go search your company name first, actually, because people might already be saving what it is you're putting out. Number two, you can look for the keywords that you use in other areas. So if you're optimizing for SEO, you can take some of those phrases and put them into that search bar on Pinterest to see are is anybody talking about this is anybody saving these types of pins already? And then number three, Pinterest has a tool called Trends. You can find it by going to trends.pinterest.com and it filters by the UK, Canada and the US. And so you're Hold to see by putting in again those search terms. Is that even a trend on Pinterest? And maybe when it trends? So those are the really the three things I would tell people to do take about an hour to do that. And just see what's over there.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, great point. And I we should also add that, I mean, I feel like I'm evangelizing Pinterest together with you're here. But that the Pinterest search bar does have this type of Google Suggest functionality, right? Where you can really map out and better understand those longtail phrases that people are searching for as well.

Kate Ahl:

Yes. And they, they have these key word bubbles, that were really great at guiding us where to go. It was called guided search, they took it away. And now they've just added it in pack. So when you go on there, you'll see these little bubbles at the top that have words in them. That's what Pinterest calls a guided search. So actually keep clicking to see kind of what rabbit hole you can go down.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, and I think for those that don't know, you know, Google has all these ads about visual search, like take a picture of something at all. But Pinterest has always had that visual search functionality, right?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, it's called lens, it's very cool tool, especially, I have used it before, if like I'm looking for something in the home decor space, let's say I'm out and about and I see a tile, and I can take a picture of the tile. And then Pinterest will find it everywhere on the platform to be able to find that particular bathroom tile. Or if you want to hover over a computer image, say you see an image of an outfit, but you really want to drill down to that purse, you can hover over that. And then Pinterest will match it up with any other pins they have on the platform. And now they're taking it to the next level by adding in any way to purchase beauty products by being able to try on the lipstick or the eyeshadow, then there are branching into home decor and DIY. So if you want to see how a couch looks in a space, they're really taking it to the next level beyond just recognition of a product, but being able to be in the space and see how the product fits in your space.

Neal Schaffer:

And once again, because reminding everybody Pinterest is a search engine, when that visual search is done. If your product is visually available inside Pinterest, it has a chance to appear if it's not, I assume it's not going to appear in those results, correct? Yeah, that is correct. Okay, so we've established all this great information. I think, you know, just by listening to all this, hopefully you understand that. Pinterest is not just one of those other social networks, it's very unique, has a lot of cool things going on, and really great features for business. But let's say we want to get started. We've established that we do some searches, we see this, you know, some of our competitors are on there we see other content that we're creating that, hey, why aren't our pins showing up? Well, you don't have any pins. That's why they're not showing up. But what is it as simple as just, you know, creating pins for your content, getting them up on Pinterest, and waiting to appear in the search engine? Is it also part of like the visual of making sure you have an attractive pin that is visually going to get the clicks? Or is it a combination of both? Or what else is out there is there? I know there's no simple equation to this game. But for those that are listening, what are you know, what makes some Pinterest accounts because I know simple pin media, you've worked with tons of accounts, what makes you know, some Pinterest accounts more successful than others in your opinion?

Kate Ahl:

Well, number one right off the bat, I would say it has to do with your target market your niche. So our food accounts are always going to do so much better. Or even our home and DIY accounts will do a lot better than somebody who's maybe a little bit smaller, maybe in the b2b space, or they're targeting a more niche market. And that's just simply because food, home fashion, wellness, those are the big players on Pinterest. So what we tell people, if you're going to think about approaching the platform right away, is get your profile set up, get a business account, get your profile set up and think of it as how can I showcase who I am and what I do in this very top of the profile piece. So people know right away. And then from there, what you talked about with like mastering images, Pinterest is image forward, meaning that's the first thing that people look at, they don't read. So it's very much billboard advertising on the entire thing. Whereas on Instagram, we might see an image and we think, Oh, I've got to read to get more context. pinners do not do that. If they can't get the context in the image. They just scroll right on by. Now if they're searching for something, they might read it because they have a little bit more of a search intent. But that means your images really need to be where your branding shines. And if you're already marketing on another plot form, you probably already have some of those marketing component components, branding components, but it's a two to three image, so it's vertical. And then you want to think of a very cool teaser text or something that's going to really catch their attention. So that they click on the image. And then they come to your website, those two things, we find one getting the profile setup takes about an hour. And then number two with the images. That's where people can actually, they lose steam to be honest, because either they maybe don't feel design inclined, or they feel frustrated by it. We use Canva. We use templates. There's tons of Pinterest templates out there on the internet, by some remove that hurdle. And just start pinning over that first month to see what are people engaging with? What are these Pinterest users? Even like of my stuff? How do I get to know them based on the signals that they're giving back to me?

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, that's a great points. I think, from my perspective, it's almost like a YouTube thumbnail. Because if you think about it, that thumbnail image is going to be whether or not people will click or not, and end up watching your video. So YouTube marketers also often talk and people are creating a separate obviously, it's a separate piece of content, it's a piece of video content, they're creating something very specific to YouTube. So probably, if you think about that, for each one of your blog posts, or lead magnets, or whatever it is, you think of a unique visual, like a YouTube thumbnail, but it's actually attached to your content. That might, but it's really aligned with Pinterest, that might be the best way to think about it. Right? It's probably be unique to that network in order to get the most bang. Whereas with Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, you could use the same image, almost similar dimension, or if not the same dimension and still get pretty much the same effect.

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, exactly. That's a great point. I think that, you know, just spending time billboard advertising. I mean, that's what Pinterest is, right? And I love how you said the thumbnail on YouTube. Because it's the same concept. Like if I don't engage with that, if I don't look at the words on there and think that it applies to me or answers a question. I'm not going to watch it or I'm not going to click on it. So think of that. I love that connection. It's a good one.

Neal Schaffer:

And Kate, you're one of your episodes, I forgot who interviewed hinted at it. We're like, you don't just want to put the blog post title. On the pin image. You want to sort of answer a question, a problem that people are looking for a solution for in its own wording, right. And I think YouTube thumbnails are the same because people start with like this long title that they get for the video. But at the end of the day on a mobile device, you could only see two or three words. So keep it to two or three words. And and you'll notice that YouTubers tend to have thumbnails with like two or three words, I think on Pinterest, it because it takes up more the screen, you might have more space, you might have more words, but once again, it's aligning and changing, not just the visual, but the text as well. Right?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah. And one cool trick that we've told people who are trying to hone their design style, is pick up your phone, grab the app with Pinterest and just start scrolling, and save everything that hits you within the first second to a board, you can save it to a secret board. Sometimes I'll call it like test images. Do that for five minutes. Don't edit yourself, just save it, then go back to that board and see if you can find any themes, whether it's color, or whether it's fun, or whether it's even the statements so that you can begin to see what stood out to you. And then that can start your creative process.

Neal Schaffer:

It's almost like when you want to redesign your website, you go to other websites, what did you like about them? It's a similar process, but done on a very micro level on a pin brand. Yeah, exactly. So, man, we make you make Pinterest sound so easy. But actually, if you were to go into Pinterest, and you know there might be some listeners that fooled around with Pinterest back in the day and just haven't touched it since. Pinterest is not just about static image pins anymore. Tell the listeners all the different options and the paid option we can talk about last but just from an organic perspective, what are the different formats that Pinterest currently supports? And what do you sort of recommend for those listening today have where they should get started?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, so we have four main pin formats. So we have the standard pin. We have a video pin, we have an idea pin and we have a Pinterest ad which we'll talk about in a minute. So we've talked a lot about the standard pin images. Those are just two to three uploaded, go to your website. A video pin is we usually say less than a minute. It's kind of a teaser, it can be uploaded and then it can also link back to your website. Well Pinterest added this new feature idea pins when they saw Tik Tok rising and it was 20 they really wanted to capture more people spending time on the platform, because Pinterest is one of the only ones that has that ecosystem where you go to the platform to find something in In order to move off the platform, whereas all the other platforms that are out there want to keep the user on as long as possible. So in order to appeal to advertisers, Pinterest had to say, actually, our people spend this much time on the platform instead of leaving. So they created these idea pins, which is they look very much like an Instagram story. So they can be anywhere from one slide all the way up to 20 slides, a combo of video static images, but they're not about you, they're very much about an idea, or a project or a five step. And they don't link to your website. And that was a huge deal breaker for a lot of content creators are pretty upset by it. But it does link to your profile. So we tell people to utilize idea pins, when you have something quick to share, you want to break down a concept, or you want to do a step by step. And then the call to action should be to visit and follow visit your profile, follow you. And then what happens is because pinners naturally want more information, they click on your URL and your profile. And then they come to your website from there. So this new iteration of IDEA pins now has a creator rewards program to it. Because Pinterest is saying, Okay, we want more people to create, we want more people to create. And they're really putting a lot of effort, making sure that idea pins are front and center on the app, you'll see them when you open up your app, they're in the little bubbles at the top.

Neal Schaffer:

What's really interesting kid, I guess, if we have a new generation of pinners, that are just joining, they're used to an Instagram where you don't have a link to begin with. It's a link tree, right. So this this thought of Pinterest was always generous as being basically a social bookmark search engine pins, were links back to other sites, that's what generated the traffic. But think of thinking of social media as like a funnel. And thinking of every social network as a funnel, you want to get the person to see the story to go to your or to see the real then to go to your profile. And to click the link. I mean, idea pins are really no different. I know within the Pinterest marketing community, but but for those coming over from an Instagram or Tiktok it's really the same thing. Right? It is.

Kate Ahl:

And you know, what's really fascinating is that a lot of Gen Z uses Pinterest. So I know our kids are similar age, you know, my daughters are 16 and 15. And they only use Pinterest. And that's part of the reason is I don't want them using Instagram. And that's very common amongst you know, a lot of other parents that I know, because Pinterest doesn't have that. That component right of the social component. They're also coming from tick tock so it's weird because tick tock has this very, what Pinterest had in the beginning was this like, oh my gosh, this aha, I can't believe it. What a cool hack. We see a lot of that on Tik Tok. So it's kind of those two platforms have something in common. But a lot of it is that new Gen Z group that's really coming up and their use to this type of format. And they want to be able to scroll, which is why Pinterest introduced what's called the Watch tab. And that basically is where you get to just scroll through step by step watching those idea pin videos. And they it's working. They really like it.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, and I guess the way to look at it if you're already creating tic TOCs and reels congrats or YouTube shorts, congratulations. Because when I look at my daughter, 17. And she'll flip through tic TOCs and get exposed to like recipes, for instance, right? Yeah. But if she wants to look for a particular avocado toast recipe for ideas, that's where she would go to a Pinterest to look where she could do that search, which you can't do or you you could do but you're not going to get the content shown in the same way with the same results as you would on a Pinterest. So if you're already making that content, why wouldn't you bring it over to Pinterest? Right?

Kate Ahl:

Right. And you know, we're finding, especially in the beginning is that so many tic TOCs were being saved to Pinterest, because there that was the only way that you could remember what you had watched, right? Or you could categorize all these tic TOCs into hair or food or fashion. And then all of a sudden Pinterest is we're like, whoa, whoa, there's a lot over here. And we've seen all the platforms get very, I guess I don't know frustrated the right word, but you want to remove the watermark, which has been a big thing. There's been rumors, you know that if you have the watermark, it won't get shown as much. But I think that people the power of sharing amongst the people is real. So people want to see it, they're gonna see it.

Neal Schaffer:

And I just want to share so I like to provide my own data in these episodes to really drive home what we've been talking about, you know, I'm just looking at my just some random analytics. So I have one pin that has got first of all, if you go into Pinterest, you can often see monthly impressions. And you know, I get more monthly views of my pins in Pinterest than I do of website visits. sale, which I'm sure probably most printers that aren't big businesses like Nordstrom is do. But I, you know, I'm just looking at one pin that generated over 10,000 impressions. And it generated a few 100 saves meaning now, there's a future potential. And this is something I pin two years ago. So it's the gift that keeps on giving. And, you know, we'll more recent pins performed this way, no guarantee, right? But even when I look at the idea pins, and I've only done two of them, each one has several 1000 impressions. And I'm thinking, Well, you know, it's similar to an Instagram reel or to a ticket, but there's way fewer people on Pinterest, right? That's pretty impressive. And, and I just want to throw out for those. There's another way to repurpose your content. If you are thinking about idea pins. I took an Instagram carousel post. So Instagram carousel is a 10 photos, right 10 slides, literally, I you know, I had those 10 images and imported them into, you know, the creation of an idea pin. And basically, I did an audio narration. And it was a minute idea pin and that has like over 1000 impressions doing way better on Pinterest in that format than it is in a static carousel reel on Instagram where it's not really searchable. And it's that here today gone tomorrow.

Kate Ahl:

Yeah. And to that point, right, your idea pin lifts forever. And it has, you know, where as when we do, like, if you would have that in a story or even a carousel, it's like a 48 hour window, right? And then who goes back and looks on Instagram for carousels like three years later, whereas that idea pin could end up in search. And then it can end up being pinned by somebody. And it has this longevity that we just don't see on any other platform besides something like Google or YouTube.

Neal Schaffer:

Yep, absolutely. So let's take it one step further. Now, you mentioned the three types of content now, we have advertising. So like any other social network, we can advertise on Pinterest. Why would someone that's already advertising on a Facebook or an Instagram? Why would they want to advertise on Pinterest? Let's start there.

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, so number one is to drive a conversion. So we tell people, the three things would be an email, small product purchase, or even potentially, like a physical product purchase. So digital or physical product or an email lead, we rarely, if ever tell people to drive it for awareness. That would be if you're like a big company. So you're are you're trying to want to get on the map. With a lot of people, you just want your brand to be known, you have a big, big budget. But for those of us in the smaller business space, we're going to say, we know that this page is leading to conversions with people to sign up for my email list. And I know how much money I could put behind it. So I'm going to test out that audience on Pinterest. Now the difference between the two is that Facebook ads can be optimized pretty quickly. Pinterest ads take about two weeks to optimize. So your budgets are going to look different, your targeting is going to look different, and your audience is going to look completely different.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, I guess, you know, for those that have listened my podcast from way back when I was talking about a client, and they wanted to put all their ads in Facebook, on it, let's try Twitter. Let's do some A B testing. That's what marketers do. It's a best practice. And at Twitter at the cost per conversion, not only outperform Facebook, but the quality was better. So I'd say the same thing with Facebook ads cost going up. You should at a minimum, I'm sure you tell us to your clients as well. It is to test it out. Right. Maybe right for you may not be right for you. But it is another way of gauging what the potential is. And it is a unique demographic that you might not reach on the other social networks.

Kate Ahl:

Yeah. And we've had on actually on our podcast, we had a client who did his subscription and no, it wasn't a subscription box, but it was these grief boxes that you send to somebody. Yeah, so great, because she said that same thing. She said on Instagram, people are warm to us, and the costs are less. Whereas on Pinterest, they're all cold to us. It's all cold users. And they're coming in through our blog post the answers the main question of say, What do I say to somebody who's just lost their child? What do I say to somebody who is lost a parent? And they created these blog posts to give people the tools to answer that question. And then they went a step further and said, and we have these grief boxes for you that we can send to these people on your behalf. And the type of user they were getting from Pinterest just was it the cost like far exceeded what they were seeing on Instagram.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome. So hopefully your heads are spinning with all this information. Because you're just getting this advanced course on Pinterest and 30 minutes. I guess you know, going forward the rest of 2020 to 2023. I know that you're really big inside the Pinterest community, analyzing all of their you know, the quarter The reports and investor hearings, what have you, what should we be on the lookout? I mean, there's already a lot to do right now with everything we just talked about. What should we be on the lookout for the next three 612 months with our Pinterest marketing?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, so number one, I would say if you're in the E commerce space, you need to get your shop set up, become a verified merchant, and really look at the tools that Pinterest is going to be investing in over the next three to six months. If you have not invested over there to find new customers for your shop, this is the time to do it. We're kind of past a lot of the glitches. So that's a big one. I would say number two, Pinterest has tested out Pinterest TV. Now it's a very highly curated, it's not a live component, they ever choosing handpicking, what they're doing with this, we're going to be interested to see how that plays out as we've seen some access to apps recently that like I can get but you can't really do anything with it. So watching out for that live component on Pinterest, which I just don't know, the jury is still out there as to how the users will react to it. And then number three, to really lean into that idea of pin content. And seeing how you can connect with the user in a way that's different without giving up your standard pins. Like we still want to have regular pins go out there. Because we're we're still seeing how the Pinterest user reacts to the short form content. We just don't know yet. So I would say 2022 is kind of a little bit of a reckoning for Pinterest in Out with the old in with the new and they're kind of the last platform to add this element. So we'll see how they do.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, the Pinterest TV is which obviously, I found out about because I listened to simple pin podcast that you all share if you want to stay up to date with Pinterest. I mean, we see Amazon doing, you know, with influencers doing live streaming there, and we know in China, just the live shopping TV with influencers is huge. So it's not surprising that Pinterest might be the first social network to do that. So yeah, I mean, if needless to say, if you're a content creator, or an influencer in any of these b2c social networks, you really have a lot of opportunity going forward on Pinterest. IMHO? Yeah,

Kate Ahl:

yes, I agree. And, you know, one of the things that you and I had talked about before is Pinterest still drives so much traffic, compared to all the other platforms that have really shut it off, for the sake of the pay to play. Pinterest still is an environment where you can just do organic marketing, you don't have to necessarily go into the pay to play. Obviously, we don't know when that great switch will happen. It's been very slow over time. But what I like about that is you have a lot of room to try it organically, before you step into ADS. Whereas, you know, on something like Facebook, I would never tell somebody to try it organic, it just nobody's gonna see it. So on Pinterest, there's still a lot of room there.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, it's really, you know, I'd say LinkedIn might be the only other one. Well, I mean, with the exception of tick tock, of course, but that we're you can still get. And I know LinkedIn is something we need to talk about separately, but it's it's a social network organically, you can still get more impressions than you can on Facebook. And I think LinkedIn can do that. Because they make their money not just from advertising. They have an HR product, they have a, you know, LinkedIn Sales Navigator, they have these other products, which is Pinterest doesn't have those other products yet. They seem to be a very user first community first. I mean, you know, Facebook says they are I don't see that in their actions. But Pinterest truly cares about their community and seems okay with turning on that pay to play spigot much slower than other platforms. And I think you were alluding to that, right?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, absolutely. And they want to make their Pinterest ads very native. So that they it's almost like you don't know that you're looking at an ad. And so it's just people will say even I've saved ads not knowing they were those ads, which can be really appealing to certain ad buyers, because then you can get into the ecosystem without even being noticed that you're being advertised to. But yeah, it's they've been a little slower. They've definitely the pinner, is who they put first. And they're very careful about the conversation that happens over there, what they're being marketed to, and I think they were very careful as we navigated this chaos of 2020 and elections and COVID and all of that. They were like, We don't want any part of this. So if we can keep this little positive bubble here going on, and we're gonna keep that and I think a big part of that was kind of curating their advertising in a way that they could just keep that environment sacred.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, they're they're really a unique story in today's social media. So you all have your homework over to Pinterest. You don't need an invite any more people. This is like, I'm gonna need an invite for some time now. So I'll definitely go over there, check it out. You know, normally I asked my guests to introduce where people can find you. But I want to and you know, Kate doesn't know I'm going to do this. But, you know, Kate has a company, simple pin media. They are the, you know, definitive Pinterest marketing company. And really what I love about your company, Kate, I know, because on your podcast, you've had some of your employees talk, you have this whole network of employees. And they're all they all love what they do. And they all love Pinterest, and they all want to help clients get the most out of Pinterest, and it really shows right. And what I love about what your company does, as well as that you have different offerings at different prices, even for the very smallest business. So if you just want Pinterest, you know, pins created for you, if you just want to add if you want to do it yourself, if you want to join the community, just really awesome. And I have yet to do business with simple media. But if there comes a time when it's like, you know what, I just want someone to take this over for me, you know, simple, simple for me is going to be the place I'm gonna go. And every now and then I go over the home wonder what the prices are these days. And every now and then you announced like a discount on your podcast. But I mean that you know, truly, that if you don't want to do all this yourself, or you want to accelerate your learning, you should definitely check out the offerings, it's simple community has cued it up for you to fill in the remainder?

Kate Ahl:

Well, I feel like I don't know what's more than I can do. Thank you for that. I really, really appreciate that. And I think, you know, what I want everybody to know is our goal is to make Pinterest marketing accessible for everybody in a way that does not confuse them in a way that does not overwhelm them, but gets them straight to the heart of what they need to know, as well as keeping them informed because a lot of the information we get from Pinterest, it's either there's a lot of gaps into it. And so we want to fill in those gaps and say, This is important. This is not important. Or watch this but don't do anything yet. So it's really important for us to help business owners use Pinterest in the right way. That doesn't take up a ton of their time, because I'm very aware that you've got seven other platforms you're trying to figure out and Pinterest is just one of them. And if we can help that be efficient and productive for your business game on we are there.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome. So Kate, what are the specific URLs, podcasts names, social media handles where people can find out more about you and simpler media?

Kate Ahl:

Yeah, simple pin. media.com is where you can find our site. And then at simple pin media is what we are all on all social channels. I'm on tick tock too, but I don't do anything over there. So check us out on Pinterest, so you can see what things we're testing out as well. And the simple pin podcast that is every Wednesday new podcast episode all about Pinterest.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome, Kate, this has just been a treasure trove of really educational content for everybody. Um, thank you so much for investing your time in my community. You bet. Wow, I really enjoyed that interview. I think my my passion for both Pinterest as well as almost a family of Kate sort of came through that interview. But you know that aside, Pinterest really is one of those diversifying social networks that not everybody knows about or knows how to market to. The great thing is that Kate's company can really help you at all sorts of different levels. So I do hope if there's an interest, you'll reach out to her and hey, if you need help with all of your digital and social media marketing and I say all I had a an initial fractional cmo call with a potential client recently, and they were going Neil we need help with our social media we need help with their email marketing with their SEO with our blogging, I you say you you know what is your scope and I said that is my scope, because it is my job to help you maximize the potential that anything in digital content influencer, social media marketing has for you. It has always been my passion, but I'm not going to be a one trick pony. Because it is not realistic. You have all sorts of needs. I consider myself, the doctor, I'm not a doctor that consider myself a quasi doctor, that when you come to me, I want to prescribe the best medicine for your needs based on my more than decade experience of marketing consulting in various fields within digital and social media marketing. So hey, if you have a need, and you'd like to have even some part time help just an hour a week for the next three months, tap into my knowledge as it is applied to your company. Go over to Neal schaffer.com/cmo. If you go through and actually fill out the form, you can book a 30 minute call with me you can get a free 30 minute consultation. And I'll even give you as a result of that. If you're interested in pursuing the relationship even further. All even give you a 12 point bullet point plan as to how I would spend my first 12 weeks working together with you what that would look like So what are you waiting for? Neal schaffer.com/cmo. Only if you need to help if you don't have a budget to hire a consultant, but you still would like my help, make sure you check out the digital first membership community. It's also a mastermind. Sometimes it got mastermind community. These days, I'm calling it more of a membership community because it gives you access, it gives you access to me, as well on a weekly basis together with other members. It's capped at only 15 members. So I can give you as much personal attention as possible right now. And the price does change over time and it tends to go up. As it fills up. Right now we do have an opening, and the price is 5497 a month, go to Neal schaffer.com/membership. To check that out. I don't want my podcast to be one long sales pitch. I just want to let you know, because I'm here to help. And if just listen to my podcast helps you. That's awesome. But if I can be of greater help, I would love to serve you. So please feel free to reach out or consider joining my membership community. Hey, that's it for another episode of the digital marketing coach podcast. As I like to say, keep your eyes on the goal. And we'll see you next week. This is your digital marketing coach Neal Schaffer signing out. You've been listening to your digital marketing coach, questions, comments, requests, links, go to podcast dot Neal schaffer.com. Get the show notes to this and 200 plus podcast episodes and Neal schaffer.com to tap into the 400 Plus blog posts that Neil has published to support your business. While you're there, check out Neil's Digital First group coaching membership community if you or your business needs a little helping hand. See you next time on your digital marketing coach.