Your Digital Marketing Coach with Neal Schaffer

How Networking Helps You Scale Your Business [Philip VanDusen Interview]

• Neal Schaffer • Episode 182

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Join me for this insightful interview with branding guru, fellow podcaster, and YouTube influencer Philip VanDusen. We talk all about the power of networking and the impact it can have on your business, especially as we are in the midst of this coronarvirus pandemic. Some of the things we discussed include:

  • How the pandemic has effected our decision-making power
  • The power of mastermind groups
  • How "natural networking" - in a new way - can help you scale your business quickly

Key Highlights

[03:28] Introduction of Podcast Guest, Philip VanDusen

[07:22] The Effects of Pandemic in Networking

[08:39] Things About Social Media that Influencers Need to Pay More Attention

[11:13] Why People Need Confidence and Affirmations

[14:51] Imposter Syndrome

[16:24] Why You Need to Reach Out

[19:13] What People Are Missing Out Because of COVID?

[20:49] The Guild Effect

[23:58] What Made Philip Decide In The Mastermind

[27:11] How To Go About Finding Mastermind?

[36:03] Difference Between Mastermind And Group Coaching

[38:18] Connect With Philip

Notable Quotes

  • People need affirmation. And I think that people were getting those sorts of affirmations or kind of support of their decisions and their movements, without even realizing it, when we were in those office situations or studio situation. 
  • If you take the same kind of perspective, with networking, then, and reaching out on social media and that more one to one way, it becomes a lot less than intimidating, and it's a little less scary in terms of feeling rejected or ignored.
  •  And I think you know, one of the things that hold people back from doing this is that you know that insecurity the imposter syndrome rejection feeling of possibility of being rejected.
  • And I think that with Coronavirus, because we are disconnected, that whole learning process of that comes from networking, right? Because it is a give and take, but just the things you learn from people, it just is so invaluable.
  • It is not just self serving as a content producer, it is amplifying your message to a broader audience and, you know, creating a geometric progression of the value that you're putting out into the world.
  • Businesses need people, they need people to buy for them, their products and services, but people don't buy from brands, people buy from people, people want to do business with people, the more you can humanize what you do, and to downscale what you do from brand to person, the better off you're going to be in terms of making connection.

Guest Links

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Neal Schaffer:

Are you looking for a new, exciting, and honestly fun way to scale your business quickly? If so, you'll want to tune in to the next episode of the maximize your social influence podcast. Welcome to maximize your social influence podcast with Neal Schaffer, where I help marketers, entrepreneurs and business owners grow their businesses using innovative marketing techniques, leveraging the concept of digital influence throughout digital and social media. Hey, everybody, Neal Schaffer here. Welcome to episode number 182. Of the maximize your social influence podcast. How the heck are y'all doing today? Yes, I'm in a great mood. Just on a personal note, I'm a big sports fan. So see my Dodgers and my Lakers in the playoffs? Wow, going hopefully farther and farther, especially for the Dodgers. I just think that this year is all for my father, who who passed away back in April, he was a big sports fan. And he instilled that in me, so I'm glad the Lakers and Dodgers are doing it for my dad, and for all of you fans of other sports teams. Well, I wish you all the best of luck as well. So this is not a sports podcast, we're gonna get back to the topic of today. And before I get there, I just want to remind people, because I don't really talk a lot about what I do. For business on this podcast, I'm more about, you know, giving you my advice, and really helping you leverage it. And if you want to work with me, great. If not, that's great, as well, right. And just to let you know, I talked about this in the last episode, as well. But my main business offerings are for businesses. I'm a digital marketing and social media marketing consultant. And a lot of that work these days, especially with the Coronavirus, and work from home, is a virtual CMO or outsource cmo type of work where I literally become your company's CMO, VP of Marketing, Director marketing, or just an outsource consultant from anywhere from one to eight hours a week, anywhere from three months and beyond. And I'm only mentioning this now because I currently do have some openings. I don't always have openings, but I do have some openings. So if you would like to inquire about getting my help, and having me become part of your team, even if it's only temporary, I would love the opportunity to chat you can reach out to me anywhere in social media or on my website. Neal Schaffer Comm, I'll put a link in the show notes for my contact page. And to let you know, I am getting closer, this has been a long time coming of Finally, for those smaller businesses or entrepreneurs who don't want to hire a consultant, maybe they don't have the budget yet, they want to tap into my expertise, I am going to be starting a 90 day group coaching program very soon. And I say that because when I say it, I own it. And I'm committed to it. So I'm publicly broadcasting it now. So if you're interested in that, I'm going to have a separate link where you can sign up and be one of the first to know when I launch, it's going to be a limited program, I want to have a limited number of people so that I can help each one of you individually as best as I can in a group coaching environment. Alright, we're done. With that. Let's move on to the episode of today. Today, I am really excited to introduce to you an interview I did with Philip Van Dusen. Now, if you are into branding, or design, you may already know Philip the name of his company is verhaal brand design. More importantly, Philip is a YouTube influencer. See, I talk about influencers right. And they're they're all types of people. Philip has a YouTube channel about branding and design. He has more than 200,000 subscribers. So I was on Phillips podcast recently. And I'll put the link to that I believe it's published part of my 100 podcasts interviews. And I got to know him. He's really a great guy with a lot of great advice. And he considers himself a mentor to many and I knew he'd be a perfect guest for this podcast. Now. When I reach out to people, to invite them to become part of my podcast, obviously, I'm thinking of my mission first, and you my audience second. But I also give the person to whatever they're passionate about whatever they think my listeners most need. I want them to give me a feel for what that might be. So I thought Philip was going to talk about how to become a YouTube influencer, right? We went a completely different direction. But I'm really glad we did. Because Philip is going to talk about how networking helps you scale your business. Yes. And I'm not talking about going to those boring Chamber of Commerce meetings. This is networking using social media people as you know, but it's also taking those relationships in virtual public social media, and making them a little bit more private, but really all the benefits that come from that. So we're going to talk about how Phillip leaves The pandemic that we're currently exists in has affected our decision making power, we need more and more people to bounce ideas off of. To get confirmation from, especially those those entrepreneurs out there. He's going to talk about the power of mastermind groups, and really how he calls quote, unquote, natural networking in a new way, right, using social media can help you scale your business quickly. And this is what I'm most excited about. So without further ado, here is my interview with Philip Van Dusen. Philip, welcome to the Maximizer social influence podcast. Hey, Neil, how are you? I'm doing awesome. How are you doing?

Philip VanDusen:

I'm awesome. Philip. It

Neal Schaffer:

actually is someone that I met through his podcast. And as I've gotten to know Phillip more, he is a man of many hats of many skills. I think you're probably best known for being a branding guru, although I know that you are a YouTube influencer. So I'm gonna let you just introduce yourself cuz you're gonna do a heck of a lot better than I can

Philip VanDusen:

share. My name is Philip Van Dusen. And I am the principal of their Howell brand design, which is my brand consultancy, but I also have a YouTube channel that I speak to creative professionals and entrepreneurs on on YouTube on subjects of branding and design, a podcast called the brand design masters podcast, a Facebook group called the brand design masters Facebook group. And I also conduct masterminds under the name of brand design masters guild.

Neal Schaffer:

Alright, so any of you creatives, any of you branding people, you probably already know, Philip. But if you don't, you know, at the very end, we'll we'll let you know how you can find them. You'll definitely want to check that out. So you might think that today's podcast is going to be about branding. But when I was talking to Phil up, he mentioned that networking is something that's at top of mind now, I'm gonna take a step back here. This is not something we've really talked about on this podcast. But if you think about building influence, and social media engagement, it comes down to one to one communication. And this has really changed with the Coronavirus pandemic, in many ways. So Phillip, I'll let you sort of set the stage of how has the pandemic affected how we communicate with people. And I want to remind you, you know, whether you're an influencer wanting to reach out to brands, or you're a company wanting to reach out to influencers, it does come down to that one to one communication, and often to that networking. So, you know, sort of set the stage with us as we're in our sixth seventh month of lockdown, or of varying stages of lockdown, how has this affected our networking, both online and offline?

Philip VanDusen:

Sure, I think that, you know, COVID has, it's separated us from each other. Of course, we've you know, connected on different level with Zoom and through social media, but people who used to be in offices or at least have physical contact with a, you know, network or a studio of people or coworkers, we don't have that anymore. And we don't have those, those interactions at the at the, you know, the water cooler, where we can bounce an idea off someone or get some sort of connection, it's a little more formalized. And I think that people are missing that level of connection. And what people get from that level of connection is what really, I think they're missing most. And that is a level of ability to bounce things off of other people and to get opinions and to get feedback and to get additional ideas and to brainstorm and social media is very much of a you know, the way a lot of marketers think of it anyway is a is a from one to many kind of platform. It's I'm producing content, I'm trying to build a tribe of many people. And it's like one going out to a ton of people. And one of the things about social media that I think that influencers need to pay number one more attention to is that the one on one conversation that can come from interaction from that content. So if someone content comments on your posts, or gives you some sort of feedback to instigate that one on one conversation, but then also, I think in terms of networking, people aren't using social media, at the one on one level that they could or that it's very easy to use. And I think it's being overlooked in a lot of different ways.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, people are into the publishing of content, and maybe just vanity engagement, I think of Instagram likes, but not really digging deeper into developing that relationship, would you say?

Philip VanDusen:

Absolutely. And I think that there are ways that you can use social media to to network that are much simpler than people realize. I think this kind of came the whole topic of this kind of came to mind because I was I've been running some paid mastermind groups and I was doing some testimonial interviews post one of these groups ending and when I went to asking people what they were going to be taking away from the mastermind experience that was going to last longer than the mastermind expeience They said something that I was not expecting them to say, wasn't in the sales brochure when I was pitching the mastermind, and it wasn't really something that I had on my radar. And it was confidence, the first couple people said it, and then to a person, when they talked about that thing they were going to take away from that group networking experience, it was confidence. And so I really feel like to a certain extent, there's this crisis of confidence out there, because we're now separated from each other. Because we don't have those kind of those interactions that used to be so regular, we're having trouble making decisions, we're having trouble keeping perspective on our goals, or prioritizing things, or making decisions and getting feedback on a decision that we're thinking about making. And I think that that level of confidence has been eroded by COVID. And this separation that we've been, we've been given we've been faced with,

Neal Schaffer:

that's really interesting. I was gonna say, it was top of mind, because I was just reading it email from the membership guys, I'm thinking of creating my own membership. And they're, you know, the thought leaders and, you know, as they say, they come for the content, they stay for the community. And we can add another see to that, which is what they need is more confidence, right?

Philip VanDusen:

Absolutely. And I think that they, they need people need affirmation. And I think that people were getting those sorts of affirmations or kind of support of their decisions and their movements, without even realizing it, when we were in those office situations or studio situation. So now that it's gone, people are starting to kind of second guess themselves or not know what the next step is. And so I think that there's a need for people to use social media to network on a one on one basis, in a very different way. And one of my coaching clients I was telling you, just before we hit record was that one of my coaching clients was saying to me, you know, I really need to get better at networking. And I think I need to take a networking course, or find like a really good networking book. And I said, You know what, you don't need to take a horse, read a book, you need to just network. No, you need to like use the social media tools that you have at your disposal, and reach out to some people. And that is very scary for people to do, it's easy to communicate to the masses, it's easy to broadcast, it's harder to have a one on one connection, or become vulnerable, or put yourself out there and face the possibility of rejection or someone not answering your, you know, direct message. But social media has made it so easy for us to do and do in volume without a great deal of investment on our part. For instance, you have you know, Facebook, friends who might be professional colleagues, you can pick up Facebook Messenger and record a video up to a minute, and just, you know, hold the iPhone in your hand and say, Hey, I haven't heard from you a long time. Some interesting things have been happening in my business. I'm curious, you know how you're doing? Let's have a digital coffee. Let's have a quick zoom, I'd love to catch up. One of the things about a video message is that number one, a lot of people don't use them. You know, they're apps like Marco Polo and things like that, that do that. But people don't use them that much. And because they don't use them that much. And we and we rely so much on text communication, getting a video some from someone is hard to ignore, like it's hard not to answer still feels pretty special today, it does, it still feels very special. And you don't have to make it you know, you don't have to make an Instagram story. You don't have to add text to the top of it. All you have to do is leave a quick video voicemail, essentially, and make that connection. And it takes a lot less time than reading a book or taking a course on networking. And you can you can just rekindle some of those connections that you have that might have gone a little quiet little stale.

Neal Schaffer:

I think it's some pretty a few important points you brought up there the concept of a digital coffee. It's funny because I you know I lived in Japan 15 years have a lot of Japanese friends and they call it no munication. But it's basically drinking after work. It's it's a solid part of the work culture there Right. And they're doing online drinking over zoom right? As a way of just being able to even though everyone's at their own house of being able to continue that tradition, I can see how Coronavirus killed those casual coffee shop meetings or those conferences where we got to meet with our peers. So, you know, I suppose what you're going to recommend then is to use those unique features that these even LinkedIn allows you to record a video and send to someone is really used that as the way to connect and I think as marketers, we think oh get someone's email address and just send them an email and then it gets lost in email versus showing up in their Instagram messages or their Facebook messages or LinkedIn messenger or Twitter wherever you definitely have a much better chance of being red being seen really right.

Philip VanDusen:

Hmm, absolutely. And I think you know, one of the things that hold people back from doing this is that you know that insecurity the imposter syndrome rejection feeling of possibility of being rejected. And I was sharing with different coaching clients today that you have to think of networking and putting yourself out there just like, you know, in the days when you had to look for a new job, and you saw a job listing online, and you needed to, you know, submit your resume and your portfolio and a cover letter. And you may apply to 15, or 20 positions like this, and you know, frustrated because you have to fill out all the information in the form that's already on your resume. And it's a nightmare, and you send it off, and it goes off into a black hole, and you never hear back and you take it as rejection. But the thing is, is that we all did it, we all submitted 20 resumes, 50 resumes, right to get that next role, or at least to get on someone's radar. And so we've already done that kind of volume output in order to and with a very slight expectation of return, and networking, just like that, just like sales is a volume game, you really have to output a lot of requests in order to receive, you know, one out of a 10 back. And if you take the same, you take the same kind of perspective, with networking, then, and reaching out on social media and that more one to one way, it becomes a lot less than intimidating, and it's a little less scary in terms of feeling rejected or ignored.

Neal Schaffer:

Well, I love the idea because if there's, let's just say 1000 people, you know, whether you're a business, you want to get to know your customers better. You want to, you know, engage with influencers, you want to reach out to new people, or you know, whatever is, if there's 1000 people you want to keep in touch with, you can basically record five of those a day. And there's about 200 workdays, you know, throughout the year, and you can basically stay in touch. I mean, social media, you know, liking posts, and showing up notifications is one thing, but taking it to that next level. And it's really interesting, because just yesterday, I recorded a webinar, that is probably already going to be played as part of the meltwater Social Media Festival. And it was all about how companies are using and measuring social media ROI wrong, because it's all about the relationship funnel. And it's all about bringing the public into your sphere of influence and becoming fans and and you know, engagers all the way to becoming, you know, your influencers and advocates and customers. So as part of that I show this example. And this is AppSumo. Maybe some of you know what app Sumo is. But it's a it's a site that offers these great, you know, lifetime $69 deals for SAS software is a great example. And I you know, I don't even remember what article was, but I tweeted an article, you know, written by AppSumo, or an app sumo deal, it came up my RSS feed, and I just shared it right, with a community manager sends me an email, you know, thank you so much. I'd like to give you $50 credit to your account. I'm like, That's awesome. Thanks. Right. And you know, so So now, I haven't been in AppSumo, like a year. So now I'm saying, Well, what are the best deals, and they all cost over $50. So they're gonna get money out of me, right? And then the next day, I get another email. She's bringing me further into the funnel, she goes, Hey, you know what, we have an affiliate program, and you'd be a perfect candidate, you should definitely try to apply, right? So it's and now that was done over email. But that could have easily been done through Twitter direct message, right. And with a video would have been even more impactful, I probably would reply even sooner. So and you know, that that's just one example of how businesses can leverage this concept to develop those relationships of value of converting, you know, people that talk about you into hopefully becoming, you know, customers and then advocates. But I will also say, Philippine just getting to know, you, and all the other podcasts that I've been on, as part of my, you know, book launch promotion. There, you know, 100 different podcasters 100 different conversations, 100 different people and experiences and things that I've learned, right. And I think that with Coronavirus, because we are disconnected, that whole learning process of that comes from networking, right? Because it is a give and take, but just the things you learn from people, it just is so invaluable. And every day that's inspiring me to do different things in my business and, and that sort of economy of shared experience has definitely declined along with the GDP IQ over the last six months.

Philip VanDusen:

Yeah, I agree. And that's one of the reasons why. You know, I'll just segue a little into another thing I kind of wanted to talk about, which was masterminds and that experience of joining masterminds, and I think that that is that shared experience, as you said, that kind of group community connection, that which we're missing out of, because of COVID. And the decay of you know, the Office experience is that to create or to build a mastermind sort of setting where people are thrown together, they have to build a level of goal setting of accountability, all the things that used to happen in an office but these are with people whose businesses are separate businesses, but goal setting accountability to each other. By stepping into a mastermind kind of setting you immediately have you know, nine 1015 however big the group is immediate connections and network colleagues who have your back, they have your best interests at heart, you immediately have now geometrically increased your level of your your range of, of resources, because not only do you have these people in the mastermind as resources, but you have all their resources as resources, because they are going to give you you know, access to the best people they've worked with, or someone who could help you with your project that is already a trusted resource. And you're not going to have to vet them and test them and all that sort of stuff. You can get, you know, sharing, so sharing resources, sharing feedback on the work or whatever it is that you're doing. And another thing that I noticed, and this is something I wanted to just mention was that in the mastermind group that I've been running the brand design masters guild, something I've noticed that we actually gave name to is the guild effect where where people make a financial commitment, and then a kind of a mental commitment to join a mastermind group and network in a very kind of different way. When they make that commitment, I'm a firm believer that those sorts of psychological commitments that you make to yourself begin to manifest themselves in reality very quickly. And one of the things we've noticed is when people embark on a mastermind experience, they immediately start seeing significant returns, sometimes in bringing brought into a project by another mastermind member or new client work coming in, or new opportunities coming in, just from them making that switch and mindset to working on their business in a very different way. And networking in a very different way. And then, as I said, the tail end of that experience results in this level of confidence, because you have built this stronger network, you've been practicing this higher level of networking communication. And, and I think that that that's a it also translates into the social media Milia in the fact that if you if you can leverage social media in the same kind of way, as a mastermind, by communicating one on one at that different level, you can also manifest some of the things that come from masterminds, but also through a social media context.

Neal Schaffer:

So I want to I want to dig a little bit deeper into masterminds because that seems to be, you know, your your thought as to the solution to this disconnected universe that we're living in right now. So you are a perfect example of a content creator, you have a weekly podcast, how long have you been doing your podcast for now?

Philip VanDusen:

My podcast is only I'm only about 20 episodes in but okay. Yeah, it started with YouTube, and then a newsletter. And yeah.

Neal Schaffer:

Now YouTube, you've been doing that for how long?

Philip VanDusen:

almost five years now. Okay.

Neal Schaffer:

And I assume that you also have a blog on your website?

Philip VanDusen:

I do. Yes. Okay.

Neal Schaffer:

So you're the you're the and you're, you're one ahead of me, I've yet to do my YouTube, I started with the blog than the podcast, and YouTube is next. But you're the perfect example. Now a lot of just looking at from the content creator perspective, a lot of content creators look to monetize through creating digital product. So I assume that this mastermind is your is your first digital product, where have you had them before?

Philip VanDusen:

Now, the mastermind is my first monetization of my tribe, essentially. And I've just recently also built a Facebook group, which is kind of transporting my more dedicated aspect of my YouTube audience over to Facebook, where I have a little bit more personal connection, a little bit more control, but then also a group that, you know, I can, I can get their information, I can market to them and communicate with them and give them more directed, personalized value. But so yes, the mastermind was the first step. And I'm now right in the midst of creating my first course, it's going to launch at the beginning of the year. So that's kind of the next step.

Neal Schaffer:

That's awesome. So I want to ask you, because when I look at these, I've yet to launch my first digital product, I hope to in the near future as well. But you have all these options. So you have like the traditional like signature course, you have like the 90 day program, you have the membership site. And mastermind isn't actually something that, you know, it didn't really come to mind in all honesty has been another option, but it is what made you decide in the mastermind. Is this something that happened as a result of Coronavirus? Or was this based on other factors

Philip VanDusen:

or both? No, this was really based on my own experience in masterminds. I mean, when I came out of big agency, big corporate after a 25 year career, I you know, was used to working with Fortune 100 clients and, you know, managing huge groups of people. And my identity was wrapped up in my business card and the company that I worked for, and when I went out on my own, I suddenly had all that personal identity kind of stripped away, and I realized that I had not build a personal brand at all. I had no content. I had no website, I was naked, really. And I had naked in the woods, very, very little idea of what it took to survive as a digital entrepreneur. And so I found a mastermind group and joined that and I realized that I realized very quickly that What I learned in there, and the speed I was learning it was adding rocket fuel to my growth. And so I progressed in that first year, probably five times as fast as I would have if I've just been trying to do it on my own. And I stayed in masterminds for the last five years, and they've been absolutely transformative in my own business. And so I wanted to pass that on to my community and share the things that I've used in order to make my business more successful. There's also a huge range of creative professionals who are in that stage of life where they're, you know, 40, to 50, to moving on to 60, who are going through that mid career pivot. And they're having to take more stock in the fact that they have to have a entity outside of their job or the corporation or agency, they work in some kind of control over their destiny, and they're paying more attention to the fact that they have to build some sort of thing that they own outside of the job that they have. And so I wanted to share that with other people. And to give them the opportunity to experience that level of growth, speed of growth that I did. I also come from a teaching background. I mean, I started off my career as a fine art teacher. And as a creative leader. Through my career, I've also acted as a, you know, a mentor, grower of careers a teacher throughout my professional career. So it's running a mastermind and helping people and coaching them and guiding them is just very natural to me. And it's also one of the things that that creates the most energy for me.

Neal Schaffer:

So obviously, for those listening, if they're a creative, professional branding professional, then your your mastermind is a great place to start for others that and I'm assuming you would recommend people sort of find niches where they can interact with peers that are similar to them. So I've never been in a mastermind. It's funny, I'm going to give a shout out to Ian Anderson gray. He has a great podcast about live marketing. And whenever I see him in social media marketing, we always talk about we should like do a mastermind together. But we've never done one, right. Even like a month ago I was on this podcast, we had the same conversation. How does one the listener who's who's sold on the idea? Maybe they've never done a mastermind? Maybe they're looking for a new one? How do they go about finding a mastermind?

Philip VanDusen:

Yeah, it's funny, I found my first one too. I know Ian, and Ian and I were actually we met in Chris Duckers new printer mastermind group that's in four years ago. And Manuel asked me for feedback on his website because he was building his podcasting Empire website. And I was handing out free branding advice when I was introducing myself to Chris's community. And so that's where both of us started off in the mastermind world. And it's and I stayed a member of Chris's group for three and a half years and but then as soon as I got into Chris's, I basically started building and joining mastermind so that we're outside of Chris's, you know, community and control because I realized the power of it. And I also wanted to, you know, create an alternate to that, to that community. And Chris, you know, Chris is a good friend. And we've shared podcast experiences. And I've, I was named to you premiere of the year in 2019, in London, and we've got a lot of, we've got a lot of synergy between us. And he is a super talented guy and his community is a great place to start if you're looking for a larger kind of group mastermind experience.

Neal Schaffer:

And if you are looking for something more niche, is it a matter of just Googling word of mouth, asking for referrals and social media? I assume it's a combination of those things.

Philip VanDusen:

Yeah. I mean, I think that if you're in an industry, that's not a creative profession industry, you know, if you're in marketing, if you're an entrepreneur and, you know, dentistry or something like that, I mean, you can look in professional organizations, ask around, ask your network, post on LinkedIn, ask the question, I think that masterminds used to be, you know, it used to be a word that you didn't come across as frequently as you do now. And I think that the understanding of them and the value of them is really starting to gain inertia these days. And so I think there's a lot more interest in it, and people aren't going to be so kind of like, huh, question mark over the head kind of if you post something about it, so I would reach out to your own network and ask, the way I found Chris Ducker was I started listening to entrepreneurial podcasts and you know, I like to call it the social media mafia where, you know, people who have podcasts, you know, interviewed people, other people who have podcasts and we all leverage each other as audiences kind of like the echo chambers. And, but it it, you know, is not just self serving as a content producer, it is amplifying your message to a broader audience and, you know, creating a geometric progression of the value that you're putting out into the world and I feel very strongly about that, but that's how I came across Chris Ducker I was I started listening to everyone starts with Pat Flynn, right Smart Passive Income you start there you go to like, you know, John Lee Dumas and Entrepreneur on Fire and then you kind of span out From there, and so yeah, that's kind of where I started. That's where I heard Chris Ducker was on on Pat Flynn's podcast and I thought Chris Ducker so I did a search, he came up as a podcast and then you know, that's kind of how you find people.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah. And it's funny because just in the UK, he's, he's revered on another level than and people. The people that know him in the US, obviously, is Revere, but not the same level as like a Pat Flynn. But but they're I mean, he is just an amazing reputation. And so let me ask you, not that you join a mastermind with this intention. But what have you had the experience of actually developing new business just from being in a mastermind and sharing advice? Oh, I'm assuming that's happened?

Philip VanDusen:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And that's, and in now, running my own masterminds. That is something I see happen within one or two meetings. It's amazing how much it happens, people will either hire a nother mastermind member as a subcontractor on something they're working on, or they will, you know, forward a job that came across their desk that they're not particularly suited for is outside their particular skill set. There's a lot of new business that happens in masterminds. And the same thing happened even in Chris's mastermind, when there were 400 people in there. One of the things that I did when I was first out of the gate was when I joined Chris's mastermind, I went into the forums, and I just offered people a free brand on it. I said, you know, I just want to get to know people, I'm coming out of a 25 year career in corporate and agency, if anyone wants a kind of audit of their social media, their website, their brand, their visual branding, I'll give it to you for free. And I had, you know, probably 10, or 12, people take me up on it. And I would give them that audit within the forums. So I would type out, you know, a review of all of their social media and their branding and give them an unfiltered feedback on where I thought they stood. And what that did was it established people who are not, we're cruising the forums and reading my feedback to people number one said, Oh, wow, this guy really knows what he's talking about. Number two, he's giving away a whole lot of value for free. And number three, you know, I, you know, I might need his help. And so they would either be referring people to me, or they would be contacting me for, you know, a brand identity design or some social media work or whatever.

Neal Schaffer:

If I wanted, there's, there's two additional questions I have for you, before we sort of wrap things up. One is just a natural extension of what you're talking about. Because when we were setting up this interview, you were talking about, you know, you use quotes, you know, I'll do the air quotes here. How natural networking in a new way can help you scale your business quickly? And I'm assuming that is what you just described is exactly that. Correct?

Philip VanDusen:

Yeah, it really is. And I think it also when I, when I was writing that and I think I'm going to trademark it, I think is a great phrase natural networking, because networking can feel so stilted. It can feel so formulaic, or you know, you got to take a course and then you use this email template. And you know what I mean. And I think that that natural, the, I posted on LinkedIn about this today, businesses, you know, businesses need people, they need people to buy for them, their products and services, but people don't buy from brands, people buy from people, people want to do business with people, the more you can humanize what you do, and to downscale what you do from brand to person, the better off you're going to be in terms of making connection. And so that natural networking I was talking about was very much that one on one, you know, video text message, that one on one comment that's really giving value to someone on some content they posted, or that responding to a comment that you have received on some content that you posted, that sort of really direct conversation development is what I think natural networking is, it's it becomes less and less product or service being broadcast, and more into the conversation realm. And that's where I think, you know, masterminds and that sort of kind of group experience moves into that idea of more natural networking.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, I was just thinking, just going back to your examples there of a woman in India last night, who we had followed each other on Instagram, she's a blogger, you know, content marketer, and she sent me an audio message. And her English was impeccable. And but it was also just very authentic. Hey, you know, I'd love to know more about your business, what have you. But I'm thinking, well, if I'm looking for a content marketer or a writer, and I'm looking to outsource some work, and this person is like top of mind, hey, do you have any writings? I mean, I wasn't at that stage them but you know, you can see, as consumers we do impulse buying and as businesses, we also do impulse buy and when that offer comes along through networking, and this is a great example of not even using video just using auto how that made it happen. Phillip, I have one last question for

Philip VanDusen:

you. Hey, can I interject something there, because that's something I think is really rare. And one of the methods when I started my Facebook group and was trying to move people from YouTube to Facebook, when I first got my you know, I want to say first 100 members hurt the who came over to Facebook, every new person who joined I sent them an audio message on on Facebook messenger or a video message. And I tell you, these are people I'd never met before that never had a comment with before. And they received a personalized video message from me. And I tell you, it freaked them the eff out like lots of them. Lots of them were like, Oh, my God, it's you. You're like a real person. And it's that kind of unlock that, I think is what really does it for for, for brands and for for people.

Neal Schaffer:

And doesn't like Pat Flynn say every Friday, he sends out five bonjoro video messages to his list just out of the blue to ask them, you know, it's Yeah, I agree. It's really powerful. So this is a little bit of a selfish question. So I am so my first digital product, I'm actually if you go to my website, there is a link for something called group coaching. And it's something I'm looking at launching very soon. So my question to you is, what is the difference between a mastermind and group coaching? Are they pretty much the same? Or are there any, should I launch a mastermind or stolons, group coaching,

Philip VanDusen:

I think they are very different. And that that actually is one of the things that I have to make clear when I'm vetting the members of the masterminds that I put together. And that is that I am not the guru. And I am not disseminating all of the valuable information myself to this group of nine people. Okay, when I, when I'm doing is I'm facilitating the transfer of information across the entire group to the entire group, and trying to herd the cats into a direction where they aren't just willy nilly, but they're making headway. And so sometimes I have to, you know, corral people cut people off, you know, redirect the conversation, pull someone back, who's maybe monopolizing too much time, pull someone in, who sends it tends to be quiet or no has value to add, but isn't one of those assertive people. So there's a lot of, and this is what, you know, this is the professorial aspect of how I do it, which is that I have an understanding of group dynamics and a, you know, somewhat developed level of EQ, right, hopefully, and I can, I can manage the group, so it has its greatest effect, I think group coaching really, is feels to me a little bit more like a class. I mean, the class may interact, but the primary focus is, you know, information coming from you and going out. And that's very much not what a mastermind is.

Neal Schaffer:

And I mean, at the success of the mastermind, is the facilitator and the members and the facilitator, vetting the members. And that is a unique skill that not everybody has, so, and there's tremendous value in being in that group. So thank you for that explanation. That makes a lot of sense. And I will go, now you have to make up your mind. No, I'm gonna stay with the group coaching. I guess that's I think a lot of people want access to, to my ideas and advice. So but yeah, hey, Philip, this has really been awesome. As you know, before the interview, I wasn't sure where the conversation was going to go. But I knew that there was a lot of overlap with influencer marketing with social media. And networking really is the heart of everything we do in sales and marketing. So I thought that was really great. So where can people find out more? You know about you your podcast, YouTube channel, and if their creative professional your mastermind group

Philip VanDusen:

sure Philip Van dusen.com is my website where you can get to anything that I do through that portal. But if you remember the name brand design masters, I have a brand design masters guild brand design, masters, podcast, brand, design, masters, Facebook group, and all of those are accessible through Philip Van dusen.com. Or you can go to Facebook and just search brand design masters and it comes up search brand design Masters on on Apple podcasts that pops up on Stitcher, every, that's the place to get me.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome. And I'll have the links in the show notes. For those of you that don't know, the show notes are the description of this podcast that you can see on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen, I always have to remind myself to mention that every few episodes. So hey, Philip, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your you know, your expertise, your experience, and I think offering a lot of great and really positive advice. It's going to help a lot of our listeners.

Philip VanDusen:

Thanks a lot, Neal. I really appreciate your having me on the show. Alright, everybody, I

Neal Schaffer:

truly hope that you enjoyed that interview, you know, talking to Philip and I'm also going to give a shout out to my bad dad, Natalie. I'm going to be on his podcast very soon. And we are kindred spirits when it comes to marketing when it comes to Japan. And when it comes to our thought on life. You know, I met Dan, back in 2009 or 10, after I wrote my first book, windmill networking, and I was very much into networking and very much in the scene, the human value, the Pay It Forward value, and more and more the business value of doing that. And Dan and I are friends to this day because of that. So I know that we may tend to think of networking as people just trying to sell stuff to us. Sir, it's a total waste of time. Networking is really a part of my roots. And when I think about it, and I thought about it during this interview, as well as this interview, I do it down. And once once I get the, once it's published, I'll put the link in the show notes. Networking has been a part of my DNA. And perhaps part of the reason for my success, at least in sales, without a doubt, comes from networking, comes from being genuinely interested in other people comes from genuinely listening to other people, and comes from trying to help people first, before I ask for their help. So I want you to think about that. And I'm hoping that this interview would fill up really give you a fresh and new perspective of the power of human connection in everything you do. Not just in your marketing, not just in your business, but really in your life. Alright, everybody, I want to thank you all, again for being loyal subscribers. For all the reviews I've gotten on Apple podcasts and elsewhere, please feel free to continue providing me those I, I see, I'm slowly starting to crack and climb up those rankings in a lot more countries these days, including my own United States, which is really exciting for me, because that's obviously the biggest audience that that that I want. So thank you all for that every recommendation you make every review, every subscription, it really does help. And I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. So that's it. If you are interested in taking me up on my offer, or are interested in group coaching that I talked about in the beginning, the links will be in the show notes. But regardless, I look forward to continuing my relationship with you and adding value the best that I can so that I can make use of all of my experience in my time to make impact in the world. Hopefully through your success. Already, buddy. On that note, I'm gonna get ready for my next sports playoff game tonight. So wherever you are in the world, make it a great virtual social Day. Bye Bye everybody. Sayonara and sight gin.